Why did Pipe Man chase Israel Schwartz away?

[Michael W Richards]

Fully agree. BS man is just that, as Lynn Cates once said.

I miss seeing Lynn around here, we agree on may things.

[Lipsky]

Peaked cap man was seen with stride before, during and after she was attacked and also seen with Eddowes. BS man was peaked cap man and the ripper.
there are many sub mysteries to this case but this aint one of them.IMHO anyway.
The ripper was wearing a peaked cap the night of the double event. that much is sure.

pipeman is irrelevant.

hear hear.

The pipeman may be some secondary agent , this scam had plenty of those hanging around... some of them posing to be "boyfriends".... (or a sad excuse of).

[NotBlamedForNothing]

This may sound incredible, but I think I've worked out who Pipeman is.
I discovered the telltale clue to his identity in the Morning Advertiser, of Oct 3.
It was actually within the text of Edward Spooner's testimony:

By a Juryman. - I did not meet anyone as I was hastening to Berner-street, except Mr. Harris, who was coming out of his house in Tiger Bay when he heard the policeman's whistle. He came running after me.

You see, when Mr Harris heard the police whistle, he started running after Edward Spooner.
Clearly Mr Harris is Pipeman!
I don't know what sort of conditioning would cause this, but certain words or sounds seem to trigger Mr Harris into chasing after whatever friendly local is nearest to him at the time.
Any ideas?

[jerryd]

This may sound incredible, but I think I've worked out who Pipeman is.
I discovered the telltale clue to his identity in the Morning Advertiser, of Oct 3.
It was actually within the text of Edward Spooner's testimony:

By a Juryman. - I did not meet anyone as I was hastening to Berner-street, except Mr. Harris, who was coming out of his house in Tiger Bay when he heard the policeman's whistle. He came running after me.

You see, when Mr Harris heard the police whistle, he started running after Edward Spooner.
Clearly Mr Harris is Pipeman!
I don't know what sort of conditioning would cause this, but certain words or sounds seem to trigger Mr Harris into chasing after whatever friendly local is nearest to him at the time.
Any ideas?

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...-square/page75 (post #1120)

You said Lawende was Pipeman? Now Mr. Harris of Tiger Bay? Which one is it?

[Observer]

Any ideas?

Yes, stop winding up the good people of this Forum

[Wickerman]

This may sound incredible, but I think I've worked out who Pipeman is.
I discovered the telltale clue to his identity in the Morning Advertiser, of Oct 3.
It was actually within the text of Edward Spooner's testimony:

By a Juryman. - I did not meet anyone as I was hastening to Berner-street, except Mr. Harris, who was coming out of his house in Tiger Bay when he heard the policeman's whistle. He came running after me.

You see, when Mr Harris heard the police whistle, he started running after Edward Spooner.
Clearly Mr Harris is Pipeman!
I don't know what sort of conditioning would cause this, but certain words or sounds seem to trigger Mr Harris into chasing after whatever friendly local is nearest to him at the time.
Any ideas?

How does a man coming out of his house in Brunswick st (Tiger Bay) equate to Pipeman on the corner of Berner & Fairclough?
My gut tells me I shouldn't have asked.....

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

This may sound incredible, but I think I've worked out who Pipeman is.
I discovered the telltale clue to his identity in the Morning Advertiser, of Oct 3.
It was actually within the text of Edward Spooner's testimony:

By a Juryman. - I did not meet anyone as I was hastening to Berner-street, except Mr. Harris, who was coming out of his house in Tiger Bay when he heard the policeman's whistle. He came running after me.

You see, when Mr Harris heard the police whistle, he started running after Edward Spooner.
Clearly Mr Harris is Pipeman!
I don't know what sort of conditioning would cause this, but certain words or sounds seem to trigger Mr Harris into chasing after whatever friendly local is nearest to him at the time.
Any ideas?

Which would make Spooner 'Schwartz', leaving the real Israel Schwartz free to be at Mitre Square, where Lawende witnessed him, or some such.....sorry, what was the theory again?

"Any ideas" you ask? I can think of one suggestion.

[FISHY1118]

Im not convinced that the man that was seen having an altercation with Stride was the ripper. After being clearly seen assaulting her would he really have gone on to kill right at that spot? There was hardly a shortage of prostitutes. Its not impossible of course but it would appear to have been an unnecessary risk. Also the fact that she screamed but not very loudly might indicate that this was just an angry punter or even someone that she knew.

That would have been a extremly unlucky for Stride then , what are the chances of being assaulted by a man at 12.45am according to Schwarzt, and then being discovered dead at 1.00 am ? Bearing in mind the time it would take for the assault and the time befor the discovery of the body narrows it down even more id say about half 7/8 mins, two attacts two different men? not impossible, but unlikely in my book , Nahhhh, for me strides killer was the ripper . Just sayin

[Abby Normal]

That would have been a extremly unlucky for Stride then , what are the chances of being assaulted by a man at 12.45am according to Schwarzt, and then being discovered dead at 1.00 am ? Bearing in mind the time it would take for the assault and the time befor the discovery of the body narrows it down even more id say about half 7/8 mins, two attacts two different men? not impossible, but unlikely in my book , Nahhhh, for me strides killer was the ripper . Just sayin

agree. from the folks who were former police on here and from cops i know and talk to, including my nephew, the chances of a woman being assaulted and then shortly thereafter being assaulted again from two unrelated men/incidents is dam near zero. The man seen by Schwartz-Broad shoulders aka as peaked cap man killed nichols and was the ripper.

(cue cashoo nonsense)

[c.d.]

agree. from the folks who were former police on here and from cops i know and talk to, including my nephew, the chances of a woman being assaulted and then shortly thereafter being assaulted again from two unrelated men/incidents is dam near zero. The man seen by Schwartz-Broad shoulders aka as peaked cap man killed nichols and was the ripper.

(cue cashoo nonsense)

"Assaulted" is an extremely loaded word. Change it to pushed to the ground (and we are not even sure that was deliberate) and it doesn't sound nearly so sinister.

As for cue "cashoo" nonsense, I believe you mean cachous.

c.d.

[Abby Normal]

"Assaulted" is an extremely loaded word. Change it to pushed to the ground (and we are not even sure that was deliberate) and it doesn't sound nearly so sinister.

As for cue "cashoo" nonsense, I believe you mean cachous.

c.d.

Gesundheit

[Losmandris]

agree. from the folks who were former police on here and from cops i know and talk to, including my nephew, the chances of a woman being assaulted and then shortly thereafter being assaulted again from two unrelated men/incidents is dam near zero. The man seen by Schwartz-Broad shoulders aka as peaked cap man killed nichols and was the ripper.

(cue cashoo nonsense)

For me I believe JtR watches the 'altercation' and arrives on the scene as a bit of knight in shining armor/ready punter. I think BS is seen by stride as a potential client, she pesters him a bit, he has no of it and pushes her off. JtR picks her up and brushes her down and she leads him into the yard. She offers him a cachous or does something to freak him out, so he just cuts her throat before rapidly departing.

[Abby Normal]

For me I believe JtR watches the 'altercation' and arrives on the scene as a bit of knight in shining armor/ready punter. I think BS is seen by stride as a potential client, she pesters him a bit, he has no of it and pushes her off. JtR picks her up and brushes her down and she leads him into the yard. She offers him a cachous or does something to freak him out, so he just cuts her throat before rapidly departing.

hi Los
possibly but there is just no evidence for this phantom ripper. BS man, seen by schwarz, fits the other witness descriptions that night (peaked cap and all)-Marshall, lawende and co, possibly smith. To me there really is no mystery here-BS/peaked cap man was the ripper he killed stride and eddowes and was seen with both victims shortly before he killed them. he was a bit agitated by all this so shortly after wrote the gsg and left the bloody apron.

[Darryl Kenyon]

The Foreman - Do you not think that the woman would have dropped the packet of cachous altogether if she had been thrown to the ground before the injuries were inflicted?
Phillips - That is an inference which the jury would be perfectly entitled to draw.

Regards Darryl

[c.d.]

The Foreman - Do you not think that the woman would have dropped the packet of cachous altogether if she had been thrown to the ground before the injuries were inflicted?
Phillips - That is an inference which the jury would be perfectly entitled to draw.

Regards Darryl

There are certainly recorded instances of people taking a hard fall and still managing to hold on to something but I think that is the exception rather than the norm. I also think in those cases that the objects were hard and substantial such as a purse or a glass. In this instance, it is just cachous wrapped in tissue paper. And while they might have been able to survive being thrown to the ground, I think the real test would have been holding on to them if dragged back into the yard and trying to fight off the B.S. man. It is possible that she went with him voluntarily but I find that unlikely.

I think it much more likely than not that the cachous could not have withstood all that happened without spilling. That leads me to believe that she did not have them in her hand during the encounter with the B.S man but took them out after he had left and before her killer (the Ripper) came on the scene.

Just an opinion. I have to wonder if the Foreman was thinking along those lines as well.

I would also add that Phillips response seems to take it out of the realm of some far fetched theory.

c.d.