Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why did Pipe Man chase Israel Schwartz away?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Why did Pipe Man chase Israel Schwartz away?

    I really think this should be discussed. In my opinion, it indicates that Pipe Man was on the 'Ripper Team' in some role. I would like to see if anyone else could come up with an alternate explanation.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Stacker View Post
    I really think this should be discussed. In my opinion, it indicates that Pipe Man was on the 'Ripper Team' in some role. I would like to see if anyone else could come up with an alternate explanation.
    Hello Stacker,

    The problem is that we don't know for sure that Pipe Man chased Schwartz. Pipe Man himself could have been running away from what he considered a dangerous situation leading Schwartz to believe that Pipe Man was chasing him. It is all just too murky to reach a conclusion one way or another.

    c.d.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by c.d. View Post

      Hello Stacker,

      The problem is that we don't know for sure that Pipe Man chased Schwartz. Pipe Man himself could have been running away from what he considered a dangerous situation leading Schwartz to believe that Pipe Man was chasing him. It is all just too murky to reach a conclusion one way or another.

      c.d.
      Oh, what brave those two men were!

      Two men saw a man assaulting a woman on the street, and they ran away!


      The Baron

      Comment


      • #4
        Iím not convinced that the man that was seen having an altercation with Stride was the ripper. After being clearly seen assaulting her would he really have gone on to kill right at that spot? There was hardly a shortage of prostitutes. Itís not impossible of course but it would appear to have been an unnecessary risk. Also the fact that she screamed but not very loudly might indicate that this was just an angry punter or even someone that she knew.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes Lizzie. not Lipski.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
            Iím not convinced that the man that was seen having an altercation with Stride was the ripper. After being clearly seen assaulting her would he really have gone on to kill right at that spot? There was hardly a shortage of prostitutes. Itís not impossible of course but it would appear to have been an unnecessary risk. Also the fact that she screamed but not very loudly might indicate that this was just an angry punter or even someone that she knew.
            Hello Herlock,

            I agree completely. Had he fled the scene he could only have been accused of pushing a prostitute. Add in the fact that no one heard any screams or sounds of a struggle post Schwartz. Stride only had her throat cut with no other cuts to the body. This is hardly indicative of someone in a rage. Her clothes were not ripped or torn and no bruises to the face which you would expect if she had been slapped around by an angry lover. And of course there are those damned cachous (cue Abby with a red herring remark )

            c.d.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The Baron View Post

              Oh, what brave those two men were!

              Two men saw a man assaulting a woman on the street, and they ran away!


              The Baron
              This seems to be a rather cryptic remark. Care to elaborate?

              c.d.

              Comment


              • #8
                If pipeman was an accomplice to Jack where was he at Mitre Square? We only have Lawende and companies sighting, and although it may be argued that it wasn't the killer they saw it does seem highly likely they did. IE one man. Plus a lone woman going into a darkened square with two men? I doubt it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                  If pipeman was an accomplice to Jack where was he at Mitre Square? We only have Lawende and companies sighting, and although it may be argued that it wasn't the killer they saw it does seem highly likely they did. IE one man. Plus a lone woman going into a darkened square with two men? I doubt it.
                  Exactly. He was probably wanting nothing to do with stride getting attacked either, or he was made up by schwartz to help make up for his less than brave actions.
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by c.d. View Post

                    Hello Herlock,

                    I agree completely. Had he fled the scene he could only have been accused of pushing a prostitute. Add in the fact that no one heard any screams or sounds of a struggle post Schwartz. Stride only had her throat cut with no other cuts to the body. This is hardly indicative of someone in a rage. Her clothes were not ripped or torn and no bruises to the face which you would expect if she had been slapped around by an angry lover. And of course there are those damned cachous (cue Abby with a red herring remark )

                    c.d.
                    Hello c.d.

                    There are no definites of course but I tend to apply the same thinking to Astrakhan Man (if he existed.) Itís difficult to see him going on to kill Kelly after Hutchinson had gone to the extraordinary length of stopping down to look directly into his face. Then to follow the couple to Millerís Court. The ripper took enough risks by simply doing what he did without virtually asking to be identified.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Darryl Kenyon View Post
                      If pipeman was an accomplice to Jack where was he at Mitre Square? We only have Lawende and companies sighting, and although it may be argued that it wasn't the killer they saw it does seem highly likely they did. IE one man. Plus a lone woman going into a darkened square with two men? I doubt it.
                      Excellent point Darryl. Lawende is probably the likeliest in terms of actually seeing the ripper. How much use would an accomplice have been in that situation? Unless they were familiar with the police beats a Constable could have approached from any one of three directions.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                        Iím not convinced that the man that was seen having an altercation with Stride was the ripper. After being clearly seen assaulting her would he really have gone on to kill right at that spot? There was hardly a shortage of prostitutes. Itís not impossible of course but it would appear to have been an unnecessary risk. Also the fact that she screamed but not very loudly might indicate that this was just an angry punter or even someone that she knew.
                        Following that through to its logical conclusion, perhaps he scooted off to Mitre Square and did exactly that, and was the Ripper?

                        But I don't think so.
                        I don't think the Ripper was anywhere near the scene of Lizzie's murder.

                        I believe that the man who attacked Lizzie knew Pipe man, and when the cry of "Lipski" went out that was to alert PM to either go "deal with" a lone Jew, or merely chase off a witness to the assault. Whether that attacker then went on to kill Lizzie in a bad imitation of the Ripper's MO, deliberately or otherwise, or even whether another attacker entirely arrived within that short window and did the deed, I don't think Jack was about. He was casing the area around Mitre Square.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Peaked cap man was seen with stride before, during and after she was attacked and also seen with Eddowes. BS man was peaked cap man and the ripper.
                          there are many sub mysteries to this case but this aint one of them.IMHO anyway.
                          The ripper was wearing a peaked cap the night of the double event. that much is sure.

                          pipeman is irrelevant.
                          "Is all that we see or seem
                          but a dream within a dream?"

                          -Edgar Allan Poe


                          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                          -Frederick G. Abberline

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            In reality its probable that there never was any Pipeman, or BSM, or a situation like Israel Schwartz says he saw. So putting emphasis on including these characters is contrary to searching for any real truth here. Its the same for Astrakan Man, which also got mentioned here, there is no substantive proof that Israel saw anything that night, and his lack of inclusion in any way shape or form with the Inquest into Liz Strides death should reassure anyone who doesn't want to discard someone truly useful here. Same goes for the discredited George Hutchinson.

                            Its my opinion that Israel was actually in attendance there that night and was brought forward Sunday night as a friend of Wess's, (perhaps due to his "theatrical" style), to provide a story that would try to remove any suspicion that Liz was killed by a Jewish person at the club, which is why the anti-Semite slur is included. He did so via a translator...who its probable was also Wess. He translated for Goldstein Tuesday night.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                              In reality its probable that there never was any Pipeman, or BSM, or a situation like Israel Schwartz says he saw. So putting emphasis on including these characters is contrary to searching for any real truth here. Its the same for Astrakan Man, which also got mentioned here, there is no substantive proof that Israel saw anything that night, and his lack of inclusion in any way shape or form with the Inquest into Liz Strides death should reassure anyone who doesn't want to discard someone truly useful here. Same goes for the discredited George Hutchinson.

                              Its my opinion that Israel was actually in attendance there that night and was brought forward Sunday night as a friend of Wess's, (perhaps due to his "theatrical" style), to provide a story that would try to remove any suspicion that Liz was killed by a Jewish person at the club, which is why the anti-Semite slur is included. He did so via a translator...who its probable was also Wess. He translated for Goldstein Tuesday night.
                              Fully agree. BS man is just that, as Lynn Cates once said.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X