Stride Bruising

[Fleetwood Mac]

Any thoughts, creative or otherwise, on why the bruising on Stride's right shoulder was more pronounced than the left?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Any thoughts, creative or otherwise, on why the bruising on Stride's right shoulder was more pronounced than the left?

Oh and I'm curious about BS Man?

Surely it would be far easier to create bruising on her shoulders from the front? a) access b) Stride's reflex - hands up to block etc.

Seems to me Stride was attacked from behind? Much easier to take control from that angle.

[Cogidubnus]

or in absentia?

And why no bruising to Strides knees, calves or thighs if she'd been thrown down as Schwartz describes?

Dave

[curious]

And why no bruising to Strides knees, calves or thighs if she'd been thrown down as Schwartz describes?

Dave

When I envisioned her falling, I saw her landing on her rear, not knees -- but still you would have thought bruising might occur, unless she sort of went down gradually and easily because of her bad leg?

curious

[curious]

Oh and I'm curious about BS Man?

Surely it would be far easier to create bruising on her shoulders from the front? a) access b) Stride's reflex - hands up to block etc.

Seems to me Stride was attacked from behind? Much easier to take control from that angle.

Hi, FM,
Considering that she may have been attacked from behind, is it possible the right shoulder bruise was made by the attacker's elbow and the one on her left by the heel of his hand?

What are you curious about BS Man?

curious

[Addy]

Hi all,

I always understood she was pushed to the ground by the man attacking her as witnessed by Schwarz. He pushed her by the shoulders. I guess he pushed one shoulder harder than the other. And I imagine she would have landed on her behind, if pushed by the shoulders. So no bruising on the knees.

The Ripper did attack from behind, he probably pulled her by her scarf. The knot was pulled tight and the scarf was on sideways. Also, the edge was frayed, where he cut with the knife.

Greetings,

Addy

[Cogidubnus]

So Addy, Broad shouldered man isn't the killer?

Dave

[Tom_Wescott]

According to Swanson, Stride was pulled towards the street, which presumably means she was facing BS Man. He then 'turned her around' and threw her down, which means she would not have landed on her butt.

As for the bruises on her shoulder, I'm not so sure they had anything to do with her murder, though they may have been from BS Man push. If they were more pronounced on the right, it would likely be because the person who caused it was right handed.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

facing

Hello Tom.

"As for the bruises on her shoulder, I'm not so sure they had anything to do with her murder . . ."

I prefer to leave that an open question as well.

" . . . though they may have been from BS Man push."

Or possibly grabbing later, given such ever happened.


"If they were more pronounced on the right, it would likely be because the person who caused it was right handed."

Is it possible that, if they were facing one another and the right side were more bruised, that it would be caused by the left hand?

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Lynn. Yes, anything is possible. But I was following Swanson's scenario of BS Man having turned Stride around and pushed or thrown her down.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

opposite

Hello Tom. I was thinking that, standing face to face, right meets left and vice versa.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

As regards bruising on Stride's right shoulder, as reported in The Times, Dr Bagster Phillips says:

"Over both shoulders, especially the right, and under the collar bone and in front of the chest there was a blueish discolouration, which I have watched and have seen on two occasions since".

It doesn't necessarily sound as if the markings to the right were necessarily THAT more pronounced than those to the left...but what certainly is curious to my mind, is the wording of the section I've bolded...odd...

And of course, taking Schwartz's statement, as quite clearly interpreted by Tom, at face value, I repeat my earlier question...why weren't Strides knees, calves or thighs bruised? Either Schwartz is lying in particular detail, or Schwartz is lying in general? Which is it to be?

All the best

Dave

[Hunter]

As regards bruising on Stride's right shoulder, as reported in The Times, Dr Bagster Phillips says:

"Over both shoulders, especially the right, and under the collar bone and in front of the chest there was a blueish discolouration, which I have watched and have seen on two occasions since".

It doesn't necessarily sound as if the markings to the right were necessarily THAT more pronounced than those to the left...but what certainly is curious to my mind, is the wording of the section I've bolded...odd...

Hi Dave,

Dr. Phillips returned to the mortuary on at least two more occasions after the initial post-mortem at 3 p.m. Monday. In the same testimony reported in the Times he later said, "On Tuesday I again went to the mortuary to observe the marks on the shoulders." He mentions on recall on Friday that he and Drs. Brown and Blackwell had returned to the mortuary for a third time "after the last examination" possibly on Wednesday before that session of the inquest commenced. What he was looking for was a change in the coloration as the blood settled in the body and decomposition set in.

And of course, taking Schwartz's statement, as quite clearly interpreted by Tom, at face value, I repeat my earlier question...why weren't Strides knees, calves or thighs bruised? Either Schwartz is lying in particular detail, or Schwartz is lying in general? Which is it to be?

She had on two petticoats, chemise, and a skirt, which might have cushioned her fall to some extent - being more loosely around her that her upper garments.

Quickly on the discolorations on the shoulders...
The medicos did not implicate that the bruises were caused from any blunt force trauma. Dr. Blackwell's Oct. 5th testimony as also reported in the Times:

Juror - Do you know how these marks were likely to have been caused?
Blackwell - By two hands pressing on the shoulders.

[mariab]

Thanks for explaning the “on two occasions since“ Cris, as I was scratching my head if he meant on other victims.

Either Schwartz is lying in particular detail, or Schwartz is lying in general? Which is it to be?

What's interesting is that the Star report fits with Stride having been bruised on the shoulders.

[Archaic]

The Marks On Her Shoulders

Quickly on the discolorations on the shoulders...
The medicos did not implicate that the bruises were caused from any blunt force trauma. Dr. Blackwell's Oct. 5th testimony as also reported in the Times:

Juror - Do you know how these marks were likely to have been caused?
Blackwell - By two hands pressing on the shoulders.

Do you think the killer grabbed her by both shoulders, then released one hand to quickly slit her throat? (Seems like it would be difficult to grab her with both hands while holding a very sharp knife. And the facial bruises indicate he grabbed her face as he slit her throat.)

Or might the bruising have occurred after he slit her throat, as have grabbed her shoulders to lay her down more quietly?

Seems like quite a while ago we discussed whether grabbing a dying person would result in a visible bruise, and if so, how long after death it would appear, but I'm afraid I can't recall what the general consensus was.

Thanks and best regards,
Archaic