Stride Bruising

[Wickerman]

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

I believe NO story is made from whole cloth. I think EACH story must be looked at critically. Then, when errors are found, we must try to understand WHY the error was made.

So, here:

1. The press confused doubt with belief?

2. The press misunderstood what was said?

3. Other?

I'm game.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

For what its worth, I suspect there were Inspectors & Detectives who held diverse opinions on several aspects of the case. Specifically here with respect to the story given by Schwartz I'm sure the same applies.

A Chief Inspector like Swanson will maintain a middle position knowing that the story could not be confirmed nor denied, yet an individual Inspector, perhaps at Leman St. might hold a different opinion.
It would only take one dismissive remark from an official overheard at the station for a reporter to publish that 'the police' have reason to doubt, etc.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

a personal account

Hello Lynn,

... I venture to suggest that many men would have run like rabbits, then and now.
Best wishes,
Gwyneth

I had something of this sort happen to me. I witnessed a man begin beating what was presumably his wife. I interjected myself into the situation. He fled. I gave chase. I called 911. Unfortunately his auto was superior to the one I was driving at the time. Many will flee. Many won't. Sad part was that no one seemed to concerned about it.

[Wickerman]

Hmm, I think I love you. What are your views on side whiskers? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

Enough to sport them for thirty odd years... though more discreet than your fine example

[curious4]

The press

Hello Lynn, Jon,

I did not say or mean that all press reports should be disbelieved.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

[curious4]

Not all

I had something of this sort happen to me. I witnessed a man begin beating what was presumably his wife. I interjected myself into the situation. He fled. I gave chase. I called 911. Unfortunately his auto was superior to the one I was driving at the time. Many will flee. Many won't. Sad part was that no one seemed to concerned about it.

Hello DLDWatson,

My eldest son intervened alone when a gang of youths were beating a young immigrant couple. He is 6'4 and can take care of himself, but was injured and badly shaken. Fortunately someone had called the police, who arrived in time. He identified the gang and then witnessed against them.

As his mother, I was proud of him, but still wished (a little) that he had run like a rabbit when I thought of what could have happened. The immigrant couple disappeared - they may well have been here illegally or were just afraid of the police. Perhaps I was a little unfair on men in general, but I do understand why Schwarz took to his heels.

Best wishes,
C4

[lynn cates]

right

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"For what its worth, I suspect there were Inspectors & Detectives who held diverse opinions on several aspects of the case. Specifically here with respect to the story given by Schwartz I'm sure the same applies.

A Chief Inspector like Swanson will maintain a middle position knowing that the story could not be confirmed nor denied, yet an individual Inspector, perhaps at Leman St. might hold a different opinion.
It would only take one dismissive remark from an official overheard at the station for a reporter to publish that 'the police' have reason to doubt, etc."

Cannot disagree with any of this. Sounds right.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

whiskers

Hello (again) Jon. Thanks.

"Enough to sport them for thirty odd years... though more discreet than your fine example."

Had mine since I was 16. Over 40 years.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

understood

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

"I did not say or mean that all press reports should be disbelieved."

no problem--I did not understand you that way.

A bit of truth and error in all--in my opinion.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Lynn, Jon,

I did not say or mean that all press reports should be disbelieved.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

Oops, my mistake...

Hello Lynn,

Yes, but are we to believe all we read in the press?

Greetings,

Gwyneth

I just saw the word "all", so I naturally assumed....

[Wickerman]

Hello (again) Jon. Thanks.

"Enough to sport them for thirty odd years... though more discreet than your fine example."

Had mine since I was 16. Over 40 years.

Cheers.
LC

Ah, indicative of me being "a late starter". I've been called that before, ...the last to start, but first to finish.
Which in athletics can be good, but in other things.....

[Wickerman]

Jon, I would say it's a fact (that Schwartz gave his evidence, but not in public).
Sometimes, unusual things do happen. That was also the case with Lawende and the description of Sailor Man.
Not usual. But that was the police choice. And the Coroner agreed.

Tchin-tchin

Hi David.

Yes, I agree we have the example of a witness being told to withold information from the public. The point is though, we read about it.
Also, we have another example of the courts being cleared of women and children, leaving just the jury, the Coroner, male members of the public and the press. Once again, we read about it.
Then we have an example of Dr. Phillips suggesting that his evidence should be given where only the Coroner and Jury are present, the press and public should be cleared from the Court. And again we know because we read about it.
The suggestion being offered here is that a witness, not known to be present should give his evidence to only the Coroner & the Jury, and that we do not read about it anywhere.

That David, is the unacceptable scenario. If it did happen we should at the very least read that the press & public were removed from the Court.
The fact that we do not is to me highly indicative that no such scenario took place.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi all,

To answer a question you asked a few posts back Lynn....yes, I believe the shoulder pokes happened while Liz was holding her cashous. She went to move past him after the threats, maybe said something derogatory to him, and he grabbed her scarf as she began to leave...twist , slice, drop.

I understand why some embrace the mention of the Inquest appearance as gospel, many things the investigators wrote and said have been treated with such kid gloves over the years. My point is that there is no evidence within any known police document that Israel was suppressed at the Inquest, and there is no evidence in any press coverage...not just Central Press issues...all the free press coverage, of an appearance of an Israel Schwartz at the Inquest, or the withholding of his evidence.

Since they did in fact put Mr Brown on the stand to allow him to say he believes he saw Liz Stride at 12:45 with a man near the School Board, one would think that the opportunity to present a contradictory story for that same time was clear. Yet it was not taken. Nor was any reference to Israel Schwartz made by the presiding authorities.

David...you mentioned that the reference was in a memo to Home Office not some diary or some such thing.....as I mentioned, The Macnaughten Memorandum isnt a diary entry and it states that 3 men were the most probable killer, none with any supporting hard evidence, and that "no-one saw the killer". You can find an official who provides an official profile of the killer, and another who in essence says that profile is hogwash..he was unknown. These are not documents that represent THE official position...they are merely personal observations, and some are obviously incorrect.

You can also find evidence that when the City conducted its Inquest a key witness was suppressed to some extent, and the Inquest and attendees were formally notified of that, and of the reason.

Best regards

[lynn cates]

firsts

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Well, you know how temporal orderings go. It has been said of the American president, George Washington, he was first in war, first in peace, and first in the hearts of his countrymen.

But he married a widow. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

choreography

Hello Mike. Thanks.

"I believe the shoulder pokes happened while Liz was holding her cashous. She went to move past him after the threats, maybe said something derogatory to him, and he grabbed her scarf as she began to leave...twist, slice, drop."

OK. Try this from beginning to end and more than once. If it holds up and seems natural, very well.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

David...you mentioned that the reference was in a memo to Home Office not some diary or some such thing.....as I mentioned, The Macnaughten Memorandum isnt a diary entry and it states that 3 men were the most probable killer, none with any supporting hard evidence, and that "no-one saw the killer". You can find an official who provides an official profile of the killer, and another who in essence says that profile is hogwash..he was unknown. These are not documents that represent THE official position...they are merely personal observations, and some are obviously incorrect.
Best regards

That's not the same Michael.
Macnaghten proposed 3 suspects that were, in his opinion, more likely to have committed the crimes than Cutbush. That's all.
With the 6th November report we are not dealing with his opinion. Warren is simply alluding to a fact - and quite a recent one : Schwartz' presence at the inquest.

All the best Michael.