Arbeter Fraint's Take

[Cogidubnus]

Cachous need not be that fragile - vide Parma Violets...

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

If...

Hello Robert.

"The horse shied to the right? Don't they mean left?"

Well, if one were up the yard, watching from the door or printing office, it would be correct.

Cheers.
LC

Well if one were up the yard, watching from the door, one would be an undisclosed witness, wouldn't one? And if the door were open, presumably the scene would be better lit than we've been led to believe!

Dave

[Monty]

That is if they were Special Police and not a confusion with CID.


Maria,

You asked me about who was incharge of the scene at Berner Street.

Chief Inspector West would have been the rank taking control along with Inspector Pinchorn.

Inspector Reid, CID, was late on the scene having heard of Strides death at 1.25am.

Monty

[lynn cates]

meeting

Hello Simon.

"what were all these secret police doing in the area on this night of nights?"

Perhaps they were in added numbers on account of the meeting?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

2 points

Hello Dave.

"Well if one were up the yard, watching from the door, one would be an undisclosed witness, wouldn't one?'

Indeed. And my private opinion is that is what happened. And if an Anarcho-Socialist had come forward, it would have entailed difficulties.

"And if the door were open, presumably the scene would be better lit than we've been led to believe!"

I believe that the door was said to be slightly ajar.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

no uniform

Hello Neil. Thanks. I presume either would have been in plainclothes?

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Monty,

Do not lose sight of the fact that at the time there was a deliberate blurring of the activities between the CID and those of the variously-titled 'Special Branch', 'Section D', 'Special Confidential Section', 'Special (Secret) Branch', and 'Home Office, Crime Department, Special Branch'.

"For the purposes of administration these men had to be members of the CID 'and not be ostensibly distinguished from other Constables [sic] of that Force'; but they were financed (secretly) out of Imperial and not Metropolitan Police funds." Bernard Porter, The Origins of the Vigilant State, 1987.

By the way, Superintendent Arnold also turned up in Berner Street.

Regards,

Simon

PS. Happy birthday to a fellow Piscean.

[Observer]

Well if one were up the yard, watching from the door, one would be an undisclosed witness, wouldn't one? And if the door were open, presumably the scene would be better lit than we've been led to believe!

Dave

You beat me to it Dave.

There was no one present at the door as Diemschutz entered the yard, witness testimony reveals this fact. Diemschutz discovered the body, and as he pulled his pony into the yard he would have had to have pulled to the left of the body. I'm sure this is what he related to the police.

The Arbeiter Fraint seems to be in error regarding this fact.

[curious]

He immediately struck a match, but that was insufficient and he wasn’t able to get a [good] flame, he was nevertheless able by the light of the first match to see that the object was a woman. From excitement he jumped off the cart, ran through the back door into the club and raised an alarm. Immediately Comrade Gilyarovsky ran into the printing shop and editor’s office that are located in the same building as the club, but separated in the back by the yard.
There was no one in the printing shop. Comrades Krants and Yaffa were busy in the editor’s office.
“Don’t you know that a murdered woman is lying in the yard?” Gilyarovsky breathlessly called out. At first the two comrades did not want to believe him. “What, don’t you believe me?” Gilyarovsky quickly asked: “I saw blood.”

Yaffa and Krants immediately ran out and went over to the gate. The gate was open and it was very dark near the gate. A black object was barely discernable near the brick building. Once they got very close, they could notice that it was the shape of a woman that was lying with its face to the wall, with its head toward the yard and with its feet pointing to the gate. Comrades Morris Eygel, Fridenthal and Gilyarovsky were standing around the body. Eygel struck a match and shouted to the figure lying there: “Get up!” “Why are you waking her?” asked Yaffa, who noticed that the woman was lying in a liquid. “Don’t you see that the woman is dead?”

Hi, Lynn,
Great information. Thanks for making this happen.

what unsettles me is that Gilyarovsky seems to have known too much too soon.

does it seem like that to anyone else?

How could he have seen blood? It seems that Dimshits had lit just the one match and that Gilyarovsky went to tell people without ever seeing the body.

Any thoughts on his too-early knowledge -- not just that she was dead, but that there was blood?

[Monty]

Hi Lynn,

Yes, both would be plain clothed.

Hi Monty,

Do not lose sight of the fact that at the time there was a deliberate blurring of the activities between the CID and those of the variously-titled 'Special Branch', 'Section D', 'Special Confidential Section', 'Special (Secret) Branch', and 'Home Office, Crime Department, Special Branch'.

"For the purposes of administration these men had to be members of the CID 'and not be ostensibly distinguished from other Constables [sic] of that Force'; but they were financed (secretly) out of Imperial and not Metropolitan Police funds." Bernard Porter, The Origins of the Vigilant State, 1987.

By the way, Superintendent Arnold also turned up in Berner Street.

Regards,

Simon

PS. Happy birthday to a fellow Piscean.

Hi Simon,

What do you mean 'was'? Still is.

Yes, you make a valid point. I must concede, if any of the murder sites would attract SB attention then it would have been Berner Street. And their movements would have been more covert than overt obviously.

Theres a few clues in the inquest testimony and reports which could be taken as an alluding to Special Branch involvement though the wording in Lynns wonderful transcription could, in my opinion, still be taken as CID.

However thats just my opinion, nothing more.

And thank you for the Birthday wishes, the same to you.

Monty

[lynn cates]

Polly

Hello Velma. Yes, often one spends a good bit of time trying to ascertain the state of the person--as in Polly's case on Buck's Row.

Any others see that?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

conflation

Hello Neil. Thanks. Then perhaps there was some conflation.

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Monty,

I agree.

It's why I asked Lynn if the AF reference to "secret police" should be taken as a literal translation.

It could have been the IWEC's way of describing straightforward plain-clothes CID officers.

Regards,

Simon

[Observer]

I would still remind everyone that this IS a press report and as such it should not be considered an authority over more reliable sources (police reports, etc) simply because it emanated from the newspaper printed on the premises of the murder. The men of the Arbeter Fraint made no bones that their paper was first and foremost a propaganda tool biased towards their cause and anything they publish must be accepted with that in mind.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Common sense prevails.

Also, If the police were as interested in the IWEC as some poster's would have us believe, would they have had translations of the paper carried out for their own perusal ?

Regards

Observer

[Cogidubnus]

Pet

The Fraff name sounds so cute though, lol. Perfect name for a pet. Yaffa sounds like a creature from a George Lucas flick

I'm christening our next dog or cat Dimshits just for the sheer pleasure of hearing the missus calling it in...

Dave