Liz Stride Re-Enactment

[Fisherman]

David:

"it could be a mistake, of course, but knowing what we know of witnesses descriptions, BS and Sailor Man aren't necessarily two different guys. Age, cap, both rather short, etc....

Witnesses can have different words to describe the same thing.
And I don't think BS was so classy."

Don´t tell me about witnesses, David - I know full well of the discrepancies that may surface! But in this case, I think that very much speaks against a coupling between the two. It must be kept in mind that Marshall, Smith and Schwartz ALL spoke of a respectably clad man, if we take on board the report from the Star. This calls for some interest, whichever way we look upon it. And Marshalls description is extremely close to Schwartz ditto, meaning that they may well have seen the exact same guy - a respectably clad man. Bear in mind that there is no other description of BS man´s general appearance than the one Schwartz gave to the Star! Each and every scrap we have thus points away from the shabby fellow in Edowes´company.

This said, we are still left with our mutual agreement that witnesses get things terribly wrong at times. But that equally could apply to your assertion that the two were of the same general age and height plus the cap - maybe the witnesses got THAT wrong!

All in all, from what we have, it seems the two were not one and the same. And why would they be...?

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Dave:

"Fisherman, I am still waiting for how a slit throat leads us to rage."

Why? Is it not perfectly clear that people who use violence to kill often are enraged people? Do we need black eyes to prove a rage? I think not.
Rage, Dave, does not predispose any certain length of time to perform it, nor does it crave specific amounts of physical violence. Cutting the throat of Elizabeth Stride may well have been the most enraged thing her killer ever did.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

C.d:

"Well then her killer calmed down might quickly."

Yes. Then again, if you kill somebody by cutting her throat in sudden, blind rage - what would you do afterwards? Pluck her up, push the dead body towards the wall with your left arm and punch her with your right? Jump on the carcass?
Rage translated into violence is normally inflicted until you have subdued your opponent totally, either by hitting them to the ground and making them surrender, by rendering them unconscious or by killing them - after that, there is little point in carrying on. You have made your point, and won the battle.
Stride was dead, C.d, and I think that such a thing would make many an enraged man sober up very quickly!

The best,
Fisherman

[DVV]

All in all, from what we have, it seems the two were not one and the same. And why would they be...?

Fisherman

'Morning Fish,

Because we have two prostitutes murdered by knife that night, both of them seen, only minutes before their death, with a man about 30, rather short and wearing the same type of cap.

Enough to mislead my poor self !

Amitiés
David

[Fisherman]

You´d be amazed to learn how many killers of women are in their thirties, David. You would not, however - I take it from your last post - be amazed if one or both of Lawende and BS man got the age wrong, would you? If one man was, say 25 and the other 40? If so, maybe they were not all that alike, right?
You may also reflect on the fact that Victorian men ranged between 5 ft 2 and 5 ft 8 to an extent of some 98 per cent.

That leaves the cap, admittedly. But I think I can sit back and leave that to your own good self, can´t I?

The best,
Fisherman

[DVV]

You definitely can, my dear !

[Fisherman]

I knew I could rely on you, David!

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

Liz & men

Hello Roy.

"Liz Stride had been interacting on the street, at night with men, for some years."

If there is hard evidence for this I'd be delighted to see it. It would clear up a good deal of the mysteries surrounding Liz's death. Perhaps I've overlooked that piece of evidence?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

prostitutes?

Hello DVV. Prostitutes? Perhaps an assumption? And if they were, how do we know that they were "on duty"?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Fisherman wrote:
You´d be amazed to learn how many killers of women are in their thirties, David. You would not, however - I take it from your last post - be amazed if one or both of Lawende and BS man got the age wrong, would you?
I don't understand your post, Fish. Are you considering BS as a witness? That can't be...

[Fisherman]

Good point - that would be Schwartz and not BS, of course.

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

Lynn cates wrote:
Quote Roy Cordyroy:
"Liz Stride had been interacting on the street, at night with men, for some years."
If there is hard evidence for this I'd be delighted to see it. It would clear up a good deal of the mysteries surrounding Liz's death. Perhaps I've overlooked that piece of evidence?
The most decisive evidence for this, Lynn, is the police report of her death, which begins “Elizabeth Stride, prostitute“. If you look up in the casebook thread Did Jack killed Stride?, Tom Wescott quotes this police report somewhere between page 8-14 of this thread. I'm attaching a link to page 6 of the thread (terribly sorry, no time to locate the quote more precisely for you right now ) :http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=3703&page=5
Your suspicion of a political assasination Stride's is VERY far fetched, Lynn, but, especially if it turns out that a certain detective agency was involved, I'm willing to research it. Still, Stride was definitely a prostitute. Don't tell me that you're considering the possibility that Stride was a spy?

[mariab]

OK, Fish, Schwartz.

[Ben]

As I've noted before:

The descriptions of the broad-shouldered man at Berner Street and the sailor-like man at Church Passage are easily similar enough to enable the inference that they were the same individual. A sailor-like appearance would have blended into the former location, being close to the docks, but not the latter.

The man described by William Marshall shares less similarity with these two descriptions, to my mind, and probably referred to a different individual.

Those are my feelings on that subject, and everyone's mileage may vary, of course.

But don't even contemplating mentioning cutaway coats!

[Fisherman]

Ben:

"everyone's mileage may vary"

It does. A lot.

"don't even contemplate mentioning cutaway coats!"

Well, somebody just did ...

the best,
Fisherman