Folie a deux

[Scorpio]

Hello Scorpio. Your sentiments vis-a-vis the WCM--in particular C3--nearly coincide with mine.

Nevertheless, I suppose that, in the interest of good will towards the many on the other side of the Stride divide, we must note a similarity or two in the methods employed and retain an open mind.

Cheers.
LC

Off course i try to keep an open mind,the double event is quite possible,but the process by which supposition becomes accepted fact,when at least some evidence exists to suggest an alternative explanation, but nothing substantial to support the double event, i dont understand. Schwartz's account looks like a case of reconstructive memory at play, and the quality of the translation is questionable, but i dont think the man is lying.

[Garza]

Assuming Schwartz's testimony is true, two attackers in the Stride murder seems odd.

~ Schwartz himself said only the BS man (drunk), walked down Berner Street by himself. Why did the pipeman not walk with him if they were collegues? Was this some sort of elaborate pincer movement on Stride? Was pipeman blocking Stride's escape? I don't think so.

You only block someone from escaping if you know they are going to run. Yet BS man almost walked past her, stopped and then started harassing Stride. Schwartz recorded no recognition of BS man from Stride's part, she did not run, back away, walk toward him, even speak to him, she just stood there as he almost walked past.

BS man and Stride (if Schwartz's testmony is true) were most likely strangers, hence why the elaborate pincer movement?

How did BS man and pipeman know each other anyway? They were not walking together, were they meeting at the transection? Did BS man just assume the guy with the pipe liked to chase Jews?

A pair of killers only makes sense if both men came from the south, according to Schwartz that is not what happened.

[c.d.]

Hello Scorpio. Your sentiments vis-a-vis the WCM--in particular C3--nearly coincide with mine.

Nevertheless, I suppose that, in the interest of good will towards the many on the other side of the Stride divide, we must note a similarity or two in the methods employed and retain an open mind.

Cheers.
LC

"A similarity or two." My, but you have a way with understatement, Lynn.

c.d.

[Scorpio]

Assuming Schwartz's testimony is true, two attackers in the Stride murder seems odd.

~ Schwartz himself said only the BS man (drunk), walked down Berner Street by himself. Why did the pipeman not walk with him if they were collegues? Was this some sort of elaborate pincer movement on Stride? Was pipeman blocking Stride's escape? I don't think so.

You only block someone from escaping if you know they are going to run. Yet BS man almost walked past her, stopped and then started harassing Stride. Schwartz recorded no recognition of BS man from Stride's part, she did not run, back away, walk toward him, even speak to him, she just stood there as he almost walked past.

BS man and Stride (if Schwartz's testmony is true) were most likely strangers, hence why the elaborate pincer movement?

How did BS man and pipeman know each other anyway? They were not walking together, were they meeting at the transection? Did BS man just assume the guy with the pipe liked to chase Jews?

A pair of killers only makes sense if both men came from the south, according to Schwartz that is not what happened.

Based upon his reaction to the short man, i would judge the tall man as a confederate, as a distinct possibility. This was Schwartz's reading of events.However, as an immigrant faced with local ethnic tension and an idiosyncratic Anglo-Saxon culture, his recall may be coloured, hence my concerns over reconstructive memory.

[Garza]

Based upon his reaction to the short man, i would judge the tall man as a confederate, as a distinct possibility. This was Schwartz's reading of events.

If they were confederates why did they not walk down Berner Street together?

However, as an immigrant faced with local ethnic tension and an idiosyncratic Anglo-Saxon culture, his recall may be coloured, hence my concerns over reconstructive memory.

I have many concerns as well over the Schwartz testimony.

[Scorpio]

If you consider other criminal double acts like Bianchi&Buono, Leopold&Loeb and Albert&Costello they can be suprisingly well organised to a certain extent. I would guess that these two had been loitering for some while waiting for the opportunity to attack a lone woman, and Perhaps the tall man was set as lookout, to give some warning of approaching persons to his short companion, but his attention became so fixed on the attack on Stride that he failed to see Schwartz coming.
A brilliant hypotheses, not. But its the best i can do.

[Garza]

If you consider other criminal double acts like Bianchi&Buono, Leopold&Loeb and Albert&Costello they can be suprisingly well organised to a certain extent.

I'm not saying that double murderers are not organised. It could be that pipeman walked ahead passed Stride and stood there, while BS man walked behind, but that is not what Schwartz saw. Other way is an eloborate pincer movement.

I would guess that these two had been loitering for some while waiting for the opportunity to attack a lone woman,

Thats not what Schwartz said he saw. He said he seen a drunk BS man walk down Berner Street alone. Pipeman popped out of the dark at the other side, they were hardly loitering together.

and Perhaps the tall man was set as lookout, to give some warning of approaching persons to his short companion, but his attention became so fixed on the attack on Stride that he failed to see Schwartz coming.
A brilliant hypotheses, not. But its the best i can do.

This might work except Schwartz would have been coming in the same direction as Stride being attacked, he would have been looking up Berner Street - where Schwartz was coming from. Unless pipeman forgot his glasses that night, this is on of the worst examples of lookoutship.

[lynn cates]

'E used--sarcasm. Oh, 'e knew all the tricks.

Hello CD.

"My, but you have a way with understatement, Lynn."

Hmmm. Hyperbole, I should think.

Cheers.
LC

[Scorpio]

The two men were always within speaking or shouting distance but the tall man could not watch both ends of the street at the same time, so i guess he chose to watch the busier Commercial Rd which is a more likely source of intruders. Diemshutz's cart would arrive from this direction about 15 minutes later. His attention was redirected to Stride, who's screeching unnerved or excited him, and then to the short man and finally to Schwartz.

[caz]

Hang on a mo, Scorpio. Have I got this right? You think a double act may have done for Stride, but view a double unfortunate murder by the man who had very recently cut the throats of two other unfortunates as a 'blatant myth'?

The murder of Annie chapman was the birth of JtR, a creature of the night, who is comparable to Count Dracula or the Wolfman.The death of Liz Stride at the Rippers hands has been constructed to accomodate the myth without any basis in reality. This could be true of any of the supposed victims, but Liz is the most blantant victim of mythmakers.

You have just 'constructed' the death of Stride at two pairs of non-ripper hands, to start a new myth of your own, with no basis in reality and no discernible motive for a dastardly duo.

Double eventing killers, including Ted Bundy, are the grim reality, proving the phenomenon itself is about as far from mythical as it gets. No motive required; no mythical extras needed; these unfortunate deaths can be explained by the brutal basics.

Love,

Caz
X

[Scorpio]

An open mind is the royal road to enlightenment. So, i have expanded my Stride/Mylett theory, based on the last eyewitness account of Liz Stride, and Mylett, as a counter to the popular but unsubtantiated Double event.
My theory is at least as plausible i reckon.

[Errata]

Albert and Costello?

[Scorpio]

I dont like Albert&Costello.

[Garza]

The two men were always within speaking or shouting distance but the tall man could not watch both ends of the street at the same time, so i guess he chose to watch the busier Commercial Rd which is a more likely source of intruders. Diemshutz's cart would arrive from this direction about 15 minutes later. His attention was redirected to Stride, who's screeching unnerved or excited him, and then to the short man and finally to Schwartz.

The problem scorpio is that Schwartz came from Commericial road, so if Pipeman was watching commericial road as well as the scuffle, he would have seen him easily. Surely he would have called out a warning to BS man? But BS man doesn't seem to notice schwartz until he is near, nor seems to give a damn about Schwartz recognising him. Bizarre.