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Hello Lynn,
That I agree is plausable.
Fisherman,
I ment I always explained fear in Schwartz not Elizabeth.
Yours truly
That I agree is plausable.
Fisherman,
I ment I always explained fear in Schwartz not Elizabeth.
Yours truly
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Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-Avon -
Somehow I don't envision Liz and the BS man as the posh party type. I think there would have been yelling and lots of it. I also don't see Liz voluntarily going off with a man who has beaten her in the past and is probably not in a particularly good mood at this point.
c.d.Comment
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I also don't see the BS man or Kidney being satisfied with a single cut to the throat. You would think if they were that angry that you would see multiple cuts.
c.d.Comment
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Great point c.d.
If it was a domestic, he is right, I am sure there would be more injuries than that throat wound.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Corey writes:
"I ment I always explained fear in Schwartz not Elizabeth."
Aha - my misconception; sorry! Plus, of course, I agree.
The best,
FishermanComment
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C.d:
"I also don't see Liz voluntarily going off with a man who has beaten her in the past and is probably not in a particularly good mood at this point."
I am not speaking Kidney as you know, C.d - and there is no knowing that she would have been beaten before by the man I have put forward, is there?
"I also don't see the BS man or Kidney being satisfied with a single cut to the throat."
If it was a spur-of-the-moment thing, a sudden bloodrush, then that may have sobered him up quite quickly. He may well have regretted it a split second after he did it.
The best,
FishermanComment
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Hello Fisherman,
No worries.
Here is what I think happened.
I belive that what Schwartz saw may have been a misinterpretation of something else. I note that he was scared, scared enough to flee, so he probally was panicing and may have not seen what had actually took place and saw something or someone totally different.There was a study done by the studio show "Date Line" on perception. They sent a person to go into a New York City metropolis and ask for directions, now midway through the directions, someone with a huge painting would walk right through them. During that interuption the former citizen would be replaced by another and the results showed that 9 out of 10 of the direction givers never noticed the change.This a good example of the brain playing trick on you. His sighting was at 12:45 and the body was found at 1:00 which gives us 15 minutes, and Schwartz probally calculated the time after he fled,not as he fled, so I believe a better TOD to be at 12:35-12:40. Within that time she walks into Dutsfeild yard. Upon leaving I believe the "Ripper" tried yet another method, using partially the same M.O. but not approaching the victem, rather "blitz" styling her.After this Louis Diemschizt rides into the yard. In the near darkness he doesn't see the "Ripper" and enters the club adjacent to the yard to alert his fellow members.Now, the reason he tells the police he entered the yard at 1:00 is probally to divert suspicion away from the club members, who were already notoriously known radicals. In the end before Louis Diemschitz, Morris Eagle, and Isaacs Kozebrodsky re-entered the yard, the killer sliped away unnoticed.
That is from an artical I have been writing the past year on Narcissism and and the Evolution of the Modus Operandi.
Yours trulyWashington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Also,
I only write this as a possabilitie. It is not the only plausable senerio I believe to be plausable just one.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Hello My friend,Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
I suppose he gave a great example of his attitude when he ran for his life after what he thought he had witnessed.
Also, indeed, a great witness, he has his place in the story
Yours trulyWashington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Hi Corey, i am certain that Schwartz was not running for his life, but simply trying to avoid an altercation in the street like a fair percentage of responsible citizens would do in similar circumstances.
ScorpioSCORPIOComment
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Hello Scorpio,
and then Schwartz walked away, but finding that he was followed by the second man, he ran as far as the railway arch, but the man did not follow so far.
This to me sounds like he ran for something
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He was obviously scared at what "BS" man did to "Liz" so he ran. If he wasn't scared then why did he run?Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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Corey writes:
"Hello Scorpio,
īand then Schwartz walked away, but finding that he was followed by the second man, he ran as far as the railway arch, but the man did not follow so far.ī
This to me sounds like he ran for something .
He was obviously scared at what īBSī man did to īLizī so he ran. If he wasn't scared then why did he run?"
Hi Corey!
To begin with, I think we may conclude that we are in agreement that Schwartz may have gotten things wrong to some extent. We differ, though, when judging exactly what and how.
I would like to point out to you, that although you write that Schwartz ran off for the obvious reason that he was scared about what BS man did to Liz, but if you give your own post another read, you will realize that Schwartz WALKED off after having witnessed BS mans action. It was not until he realized that Pipeman followed him that he started running!
In conclusion, it would seem that Schwartz was uneased by the confrontation between BS and Liz, and then he made the supposition that BS and Pipeman were working in tandem, and that Pipeman were acting upon BS mans wish, purportedly setting off after Schwartz. Up til that point, there was no imminent threat at hand on his behalf. After it, he had good reason to believe that he was outnumbered and that there was an act of violence, focusing on his own person, at hand. And THAT was why he ran.
But just as I have pointed out, there was no such threat at hand when Schwartz took in the shoving and the low-key outcries. These observations seem quite genuine to me.
As for Schwartz timing things wrong, there is every possibility that this is a viable suggestion. We know that from experience. But letīs not forget that the article in the Scotsman, that pictures two men chasing down Fairclough Street, ALSO gives the time as 12.45!
The best,
FishermanLast edited by Fisherman; 09-01-2010, 09:29 AM.Comment
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Hello Fisherman,
I have moved this topic to another thread. We can talk about it there if you would like. I believe we have changed the intent of this thread.
Sorry scorpio.Washington Irving:
"To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "
Stratford-on-AvonComment
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The murder of Annie chapman was the birth of JtR, a creature of the night, who is comparable to Count Dracula or the Wolfman.The death of Liz Stride at the Rippers hands has been constructed to accomodate the myth without any basis in reality. This could be true of any of the supposed victims, but Liz is the most blantant victim of mythmakers.SCORPIOComment
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coincidence
Hello Scorpio. Your sentiments vis-a-vis the WCM--in particular C3--nearly coincide with mine.
Nevertheless, I suppose that, in the interest of good will towards the many on the other side of the Stride divide, we must note a similarity or two in the methods employed and retain an open mind.
Cheers.
LCComment
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