A Modern Day BS Man/Liz Encounter

[Observer]

[B]Shouting “Lipski“ to each other both between Jews and between Jews and gentiles was a reality (if not a routine) in Victorian Whitechapel. Which makes it both a possibility that it might have happened as witnessed by Schwartz, or that the IWEC concocted their story based on Whitechapel routine.
The fact that Schwartz testified about an “assault“ by a verbal antisemite and a “Viking“ always appeared a bit fishy to me.
To be quite honest, I'm disappointed by the possibility that Pipeman and BS might have never existed. I had kinda grown attached to them....

Hi Maria

I know this. Which is why I reffered to the Lipski incident as having a smack of reality.

Observer

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

I think you are being way too hard on yourself. I don't find you that dense. Ah, just kidding my friend. My point was that ANY such remark would be appropriate under the circumstances. It was a threat -- stay out of my business!

Are we to assume that BS man went through his entire assortment of racial/vulgar expressions before deciding on just the right one to hurl at Schwartz? If Schwart'zs appearance was Jewish, why not hit him with a Lipski? Doesn't that make sense?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

admonition

Hello CD. Sure, as I've said before, it could have happened. And yes, he could have used a racial slur. Or, he could have looked about, seen IS, and given the admonition, "Aww, bugger off, mate."

Then again, a tipsy man, busy in an altercation with a lady, might not have noticed IS at all.

(By the way, you may win a medal for most posts in a thread!)

Cheers.
LC

[sleekviper]

Honestly, I can't see anyone using racial remarks until it was determined that Schwartz was alone. Guys do not tend to walk arm in arm, but stagger the pace. Fast walkers, talkers, slow pokes. He didn't wait, he lashed out, and if pipeman is real, he really jumped the gun since for all he knows, that is a friend of Schwartz.

[sleekviper]

Oh hello Lynn, sorry I did not say hello sooner.

[lynn cates]

Joe Morgan

Hello Viper. Good point.

You remarked that you look like Joe Morgan. Well, if your ripperological skills are analogous to his in baseball (and they seem to be), you are assured of great success.

Cheers.
LC

[Observer]

One would have to know the exact conditions for the racial remark to seem true in my view. BS man, for instance, according to Schwartz and the facts, is virtually surrounded. Schwartz and pipeman on one side, room full of people on the other, not good odds at night to be wrestling with a woman, and yelling racial remarks.

Hi Sleekviper. BS man had been drinking? Some people will take on the World at the mere sniff of a barmaids apron.

Observer

[mariab]

Observer wrote:
The theory I'm reffering to has BS man, and also Pipeman, a figment of the Iwec members imagination,they using Schwartz as the conduit to relay the lie to the police. By implicating a gentile as the perpetrator, they deflect the blame away from the real murderer, that is one of their own members.
Precisely, but the underlying part of your post is wrong. This is about the IWEC's political (and financial) agenda, not about the cover-up of some Jewish killer. You should know that an article in The Commonweal appeared in October 1888 with the accusation that Stride's murder inside Dutfield's Yard was a provocatory act to harm the IWEC. There's even a Charles Warren memo
where he ruminates over the possibility of a secret society wishing to discredit socialists/Jews with the Berner Street and Mitre Square slayings.

[lynn cates]

provocation

Hello Maria. I'm not so sure about that remark in the "Commonweal." My source was Norma who attributed it to William Morris, who wrote for that paper. He seems to have thought, as you indicate, that an anarchist was responsible. Of course, it could have been only his privately expressed opinion.

Cheers.
LC

[sleekviper]

Thanks Lynn. It could all be true, and very well may be, I sure would like for there to have been a second witness to the events though.

[c.d.]

Hi Viper,

I have to disagree. What you are saying makes sense from a rational point of view but if the BS man was really pissed at Liz, he probably didn't have time to think of the most appropriate response under the circumstances. It's like if you hit your thumb with a hammer, you are probably going to utter something regardless of who is nearby.

c.d.

[mariab]

Sleekviper wrote:
Honestly, I can't see anyone using racial remarks until it was determined that Schwartz was alone. Guys do not tend to walk arm in arm, but stagger the pace. Fast walkers, talkers, slow pokes. He didn't wait, he lashed out, and if pipeman is real, he really jumped the gun since for all he knows, that is a friend of Schwartz.
Sleek, the racial shout might have simply had the significance of “Step off, b#tch!“. If Pipeman and BS existed, the most plausible probability is that Pipeman was Le Grand (as he fitted the description to a t) and BS a criminal associate. So Pipeman, again if he existed, most certainly knew that Schwartz was not BS's pal.
What makes me chuckle is that BS's description probably fits me! How did he walk, Lynn? Did he often limped, like me? (Just kidding.) And what about the Johann Stammer person fitting Bs's description, can you elaborate on him? Who was he?

[Observer]

[There's even a Charles Warren memo
where he ruminates over the possibility of a secret society wishing to discredit socialists/Jews with the Berner Street and Mitre Square slayings.

Hi Maria

HaHa, now I know why Warren got the push. Utter piffle, in my humble opinion. So who hired Schwartz to spin a yarn to the police?

Observer

[lynn cates]

second opinion

Hello Viper. I'm with you. A second opinion would have been lovely.

Without the BS story, one can (almost) get the pieces to fit.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

anger

Hello CD. Did Liz do something to make BS angry? What, particularly?

Cheers.
LC