A Modern Day BS Man/Liz Encounter

[c.d.]

Yesterday I found myself in the role of a modern day Schwartz trying to interpret what I saw take place between a man and a woman. I was walking down the street and in the distance I saw a man and a woman a little bit apart. They both appeared to be about 20 years of age. Suddenly the woman ran up to the man and flung her arms around his neck and started kissing him. I assumed that I was just seeing a public display of affection between a couple. The man tried to push her away. She said "you don't really mean it." He said "yes, I do mean it." Then he kept saying "let go of me" and tried to free himself. She kept clinging to him. Finally he said "there is a cop over there. If you don't let me go, I am going to call him." She reluctantly let go. He gave her one last little push and walked away. She looked after him for a few seconds and then just crumpled to the ground and started crying hysterically. I felt very badly for her.

I guess the moral of the story is that things aren't always what they first appear to be. I can't imagine how Schwartz would have described this scenario not understanding a word of it..

Also in the observation department, I saw a woman standing in front of an apartment building. She was angrily throwing things into the trunk of her car. When she was done, she slammed the trunk, looked up at the apartment building, threw back her arm as high and as far as she could go, thrust it forward, extended her middle finger and yelled "so long, mother *******. Don't know what that was all about. Maybe an eviction or bad roomates.

And finally, this Monday morning on the subway looking at the faces, it was clear that Thoreau hit the nail on the head when he said "the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation."

So there you have it. Human behavior in all its glory.

c.d.

[Addy]

Some nice examples! It goes to show that you can't judge situations straight away.

Just as you can't judge by appearance.

Greetings,

Addy

[caz]

I guess the moral of the story is that things aren't always what they first appear to be. I can't imagine how Schwartz would have described this scenario not understanding a word of it..

Especially if he were asked to describe the scenario after learning that a woman had been found close to that spot with her throat cut, just 15 minutes later.

An 'orrible murder is almost bound to colour anyone's interpretation.

Love,

Caz
X

[c.d.]

I guess the other moral to the story is that sometimes love hurts. The poor woman stayed on the ground crying for several minutes in full view of others before she pulled herself together and walked away.

c.d.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Yesterday I found myself in the role of a modern day Schwartz trying to interpret what I saw take place between a man and a woman. I was walking down the street and in the distance I saw a man and a woman a little bit apart. They both appeared to be about 20 years of age. Suddenly the woman ran up to the man and flung her arms around his neck and started kissing him. I assumed that I was just seeing a public display of affection between a couple. The man tried to push her away. She said "you don't really mean it." He said "yes, I do mean it." Then he kept saying "let go of me" and tried to free himself. She kept clinging to him. Finally he said "there is a cop over there. If you don't let me go, I am going to call him." She reluctantly let go. He gave her one last little push and walked away. She looked after him for a few seconds and then just crumpled to the ground and started crying hysterically. I felt very badly for her.

I guess the moral of the story is that things aren't always what they first appear to be. I can't imagine how Schwartz would have described this scenario not understanding a word of it..

Also in the observation department, I saw a woman standing in front of an apartment building. She was angrily throwing things into the trunk of her car. When she was done, she slammed the trunk, looked up at the apartment building, threw back her arm as high and as far as she could go, thrust it forward, extended her middle finger and yelled "so long, mother *******. Don't know what that was all about. Maybe an eviction or bad roomates.

And finally, this Monday morning on the subway looking at the faces, it was clear that Thoreau hit the nail on the head when he said "the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation."

So there you have it. Human behavior in all its glory.

c.d.

Difference being that a woman was murdered 15 minutes later.

I personally don't think BS man was the killer.....only because I can't see JTR brawling with a woman in the street....unless of course JTR was acually one of the gangs roaming the place.

Also.......I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibily that BS man departed and someone else came along within 5 minutes.

I would say though that if you believe Schwartz's account then he most likely was the killer....as it would be unlikely that someone caught up in the wrong place would shout 'Lipski' which surely is an aggressive action. More likely....for me....Schwartz's account was an invention...at least in part....with the objective being to place Stride's killer outside of the club....not necessarily trying to absolve a club member of blame.....perhaps no more malicious than a belief that the club would have been closed down on the grounds of the most tenuous link to the club.

To me....if Schwartz's account was true.....and BS man was the killer....then I don't believe Stride was a JTR murder......there is no known pattern of JTR being opportunistic to the extent that he attacked women in the street.

And as there is nothing to corroborate Schwartz's account.....I'll go for invention.

[The Good Michael]

CD,

Thanks for stalking people and going all paparazzi on the public just to provide Casebook with a fresh perspective.

Mike

[Robert]

I think the Met used to have recruiting adverts which showed various scenarios, e.g. first man is chasing second man. It looks as though first man should be stopped and questioned, but it turns out second man has robbed someone and first man is trying to apprehend him. That sort of thing.

It's impossible to know how much of Schwarz's story was garbled in translation, but I doubt if it was pure invention. He was an apparently newly-arrived immigrant and Jewish too. To place himself at the scene of a crime within minutes of its occurrence was taking a risk, surely? It's not as though he got any celebrity or money out of it, as far as we know.

[lynn cates]

interruption

Hello CD. Thank heavens you did not interrupt the young couple. That would never do.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

BS man

Hello Mac. I am delighted that you couch Schwartz's testimony in terms of a conditional proposition.

From my point of view, Schwartz WAS BS man. This does not, however, refer to broad shoulders.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

friendship

Hello Robert. You are likely right that Schwartz was not paid for his testimony. I prefer, however, to think of it as possibly helping a friend out of a jam.

And the racial slur? A perfect topping to add force to the argument ("I don't know who killed the lady, but he must have been a gentile.")

Cheers.
LC

[Robert]

Hi Lynn

Re helping the friend out of a jam, could you expand please?

[lynn cates]

expansionism

Hello Robert. I should be delighted to expand. (But you must promise to stay awake through my rantings and ravings.)

I had not realised, until recently, the tremendous amount of pressure faced by the Berner streeters--and that from 2 diverse sources. On the one hand, Adler and the orthodox of Anglo-Jewry wanted desperately to see them put out of business. Indeed, after the tragic stampede at the Prince's st theatre, the socialists were absolutely convinced that Adler and his cronies were behind the chap who had erroneously--and fatally!--cried "Fire!"

On the other hand, there were anarchists-turned-police-spies in London, acting as agents provocateur for the continental police (see my Kaufmann thread). Again, the socialists at Berner st, and, a fortiori, Farringdon st, had waxed paranoiac about the situation.

Now, given this 2 pronged paranoia and the brute fact of a dead lady near your doorstep, it would not be unnatural to wish to deflect ALL possible suspicion--even with a trumped up story delivered by a friend who happens (as was supposed) to be an actor.

Now, what remains for a chap like me, with my outre' point of view, is to produce facts and connections regarding this.

So now, I'm off (but you already knew that--heh-heh) to do precisely that.

Cheers, young man.
LC

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

That is a very slippery slope that you are leading us down. Do we now start questioning the possible motives of every witness in this case?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

leading

Hello CD. Umm? Leading? Oh dear, I hope no one is following as my intention is not to lead. This, because I am fully cognisant of the late Sir Alec Guiness' remarks about following a fool.

No, I am merely hinting at a tiny part of my future research agenda--as if anyone really wished to be bored by that.

Incidentally, due to my (by now) fully ingrained paedogogical proclivities, yes, I think we are to question nearly everything, motives included.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

Just keep your proclivities to yourself if you don't mind. Questioning is good but until we have concrete evidence that Schwartz's motive is in doubt, I think that we are forced to accept that he was telling the truth as he saw it.

c.d.