Lipski

[Michael W Richards]

Yes, Michael. Mrs. Brown's murder was a domestic that was quickly solved. It didn't happen in the same localized area where a series of seemingly motiveless murders involved women having their throats slit.

You might be onto something there!

The way many people group these murders you would think they wrote names of murder victims on individual pieces of paper and threw them into the air...and then assume the ones that touch each other when they land were connected.

There are 2 victims within the Canonical Group that were committed by an opportunistic killer who most likely was a stranger to them. He killed to satisfy urges that were known only to him. These are random killings, and they are virtually identical in every important category...they followed the same A to B to C actions, and they were within 2 weeks of each other.

Neither of those murders resemble in any relevant way Liz Strides murder or Mary Kellys murder. They are however similar to Kates murder.

Adding any other unsolved murder to that list requires a full redo on the profile, both pattern and methodology, demonstrated in those first 2 murders. Those are the facts. I have no problem with people playing "what if", I have a problem with doing that without ANY real evidence to support the theorizing. Such as ....Liz Strides murderer changed his mind...or was interrupted, and that explains why she in no way resembles any other Canonical murder. Absolutely unfounded speculation, with zero supporting evidence, unless of course you prefer to use modern serial killer profiling instead of interpreting hard evidence.

When a killer kills almost exactly the same within 2 weeks, its my opinion you have the makings of a profile. In yours, and others opinions, the consistency isn't relevant. I most strongly disagree. The killer of Polly and Annie was someone very sick who had overwhelming compulsion to kill and mutilate strange women when he found them vulnerable on the streets in the middle of the night. Not someone who cuts and runs, nor someone who enters peoples rooms while they sleep.

As I said, Motives, not assumptions, catch killers.

[Harry D]

Oh...so its unsolved murders without any known motive then? Seems a weak premise to build a list under 1 killer.

Yes, Michael. Mrs. Brown's murder was a domestic that was quickly solved. It didn't happen in the same localized area where a series of seemingly motiveless murders involved women having their throats slit.

Why not include all 13 under jack then?

You might be onto something there!

[Michael W Richards]

Look no further?

Mrs. Brown was killed in Westminster, Michael. Her murder was not unsolved, it was a domestic. Please try again.

Oh...so its unsolved murders without any known motive then? Seems a weak premise to build a list under 1 killer. Why not include all 13 under jack then?

[Harry D]

Look no further than Mr Brown Harry, on the so called Double Event night. 3 women had their throats cut that night, and 1 is in no way connected to any Ripper. That's proof positive that other women in East End London, during this period in time, had their throats cut without any Ripper involvement. Kate is obviously different, Liz isn't.

Look no further?

Mrs. Brown was killed in Westminster, Michael. Her murder was not unsolved, it was a domestic. Please try again.

[Jon Guy]

Wasn't the Brown case in Holborn or Westminster? I believe Forbes Winslow wanted the authorities to take a look at that one [Brown] if I'm not mistaken.

Yes, Westminster.

[jerryd]

I'm not convinced the use of "Lipski" was directed as a Jewish insult. Israel Lipski's real surname was Lobulsk. Philip Lipski and his wife were the actual landlords of the property where Mrs. Angel was murdered at 16 Batty Street. Leah Lipski [Philip's wife] was attacked by Mr. Angel and two other men at a later date. I'm thinking if the term Lipski was used, it may have been directed at Philip Lipski as he would have lived very close to where Liz was murdered. Liz did work for the Jews and I'm wondering if she may have worked for the Lipski's in Batty Street at one time.

[jerryd]

Hi Michael

Where on Flower and Dean Street did Mrs Brown live ?

Wasn't the Brown case in Holborn or Westminster? I believe Forbes Winslow wanted the authorities to take a look at that one [Brown] if I'm not mistaken.

[Jon Guy]

Look no further than Mr Brown Harry, on the so called Double Event night. 3 women had their throats cut that night, and 1 is in no way connected to any Ripper. That's proof positive that other women in East End London, during this period in time, had their throats cut without any Ripper involvement. Kate is obviously different, Liz isn't.

Hi Michael

Where on Flower and Dean Street did Mrs Brown live ?

[Michael W Richards]

What are the odds of two women having their throats cut within 45 mins of each other in under a mile radius? Had Stride's murder been an isolated incident in 1891 (like Coles) I'm sure she would've excluded from the canon, as well. However, the statistical significance of these two murders occurring in such close proximity cannot be so easily discounted.

Look no further than Mr Brown Harry, on the so called Double Event night. 3 women had their throats cut that night, and 1 is in no way connected to any Ripper. That's proof positive that other women in East End London, during this period in time, had their throats cut without any Ripper involvement. Kate is obviously different, Liz isn't.

[Sam Flynn]

What are the odds of two women having their throats cut within 45 mins of each other in under a mile radius?

...in a densely-populated neighbourhood where people having their throats cut was somewhat "in fashion" at the time?

I once worked it out at some tens of thousands to one, which sounds impressive but isn't in the scheme of things. People win lottery prizes on a weekly/bi-weekly basis against longer odds than that.

[Harry D]

On the contrary Phil, I like this theory. I'm not convinced STRIDE was a Ripper victim, in the same way as I am I'm equally unconvinced that COLES was either. Domestic violence and throat cutting was nothing new in the Victorian East End. I believe that it is sheer coincidence that STRIDE met her end on the same night as EDDOWES. If I may take this one stage further and bring in the Goulston Street graffiti. I find it VERY hard to believe that having killed "two" women, Jack stopped to right something (that on the face of it doesn't make sense), knowing that every Bobby in the area was after him. Curious that he took the opportunity to wipe his knife clean in Goulston Street mind...............

What are the odds of two women having their throats cut within 45 mins of each other in under a mile radius? Had Stride's murder been an isolated incident in 1891 (like Coles) I'm sure she would've excluded from the canon, as well. However, the statistical significance of these two murders occurring in such close proximity cannot be so easily discounted.

[The Station Cat]

My own view is that Kidney killed Stride out of jealousy and rage.

He'd either followed her or tracked her down (just possibly come across her by accident). he finds her with her new fella (who'd treated her nice, given her a bit of velvet material to make up, and been with her all evening.

The new fella is Jewish (Stride is said to have worked in a Jewish household and possibly to have spoken Yiddish).

Kidney tries to drag Stride back home (out of the yard) but she resists. Her Jewish fella either retreats at Kidney's approach, or had just left Stride. He pauses appalled by what he is seeing but perhaps because he is married or needs to be discrete, he is frightened about intervening.

Kidney knows who he is as he has seen Stride and the man together. Kidney calls out "Lipski" at the man - both taunting him along the lines of "No Jew is going to have/take my woman" and bringing to mind the Lipski case of only a few months before where a man killed his lover.

No proof, just supposition, but to me it brings together and fits quite a lot of the facts in the Stride case.

Now blow me out of the water, folks!

Phil

On the contrary Phil, I like this theory. I'm not convinced STRIDE was a Ripper victim, in the same way as I am I'm equally unconvinced that COLES was either. Domestic violence and throat cutting was nothing new in the Victorian East End. I believe that it is sheer coincidence that STRIDE met her end on the same night as EDDOWES. If I may take this one stage further and bring in the Goulston Street graffiti. I find it VERY hard to believe that having killed "two" women, Jack stopped to right something (that on the face of it doesn't make sense), knowing that every Bobby in the area was after him. Curious that he took the opportunity to wipe his knife clean in Goulston Street mind...............

[Iain Wilson]

...the attacker himself could not have been a Jew because a Jew would not have hurled this abusive term at a fellow Jew.

...or he might have if he was smart and thought people might think like you and wanted to deflect attention away from him being a Jew

[Abberline2]

Lipski

If the man who was attacking Liz Stride did indeed yell 'Lipski' at Schwartz he must have recognised Schwartz as a Jew. If this is so, the attacker himself could not have been a Jew because a Jew would not have hurled this abusive term at a fellow Jew. Thus, if the attacker was Jack then Jack was not a Jew, Polish or any other kind. If Jack was a Jew, then the man seen attacking Liz was almost certainly not Jack.

[Phil H]

Of course, Stride shouted, "Kidney" - which sounds just like "Lipski!" to a Hungarian, especially when the person speaking is being throttled.