Did jack kill liz stride?

[Tom_Wescott]

The distance would have been very short. Schwartz was inches from them until he crossed the street. When he turned around he and BS Man would basically have been standing on the kerb of each side of the street looking at one another, only a few yards apart.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fleetwood Mac]

The distance would have been very short. Schwartz was inches from them until he crossed the street. When he turned around he and BS Man would basically have been standing on the kerb of each side of the street looking at one another, only a few yards apart.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Fair enough Tom. And we have a lot of Poles in this country today and you can spot one from across the road - in part due to dress - in part due to features. So - I'd imagine - yes from across the road you'd know.

What do you make of him not speaking English and being able to understand Lipski in a Cockney accent? Then again you're a Yank - and you'd have to live here to appreciate variations in regional accents - but assuming Cockney is a thick accent - what do you reckon?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Fleet. As you know, Abberline questioned him strong on this point, and Israel was sure he heard 'Lipski'. Since he was willing to admit points on which he wasn't so sure (such as Pipeman's intentions and whether or not the two men were working together), we have to accept that 'Lipski' was what he heard. What we don't know is if BS Man said other things that Schwartz couldn't recall or make out, such as using 'Lipski' in a sentence.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[The Grave Maurice]

How much variation can there be in a name like Lipski in any accent? I mean, it pretty much has to be either Lipski or Leepski, innit?

[Observer]

Not being able to understand the name Lipski in a Cockney accent? You're having a larf mite. I'm with Maurice here, LIP SKI two syllables, the same the world over in any accent I'd say.

Observer

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Just on a point of clarity, Abberline questioned and received replies from Schwartz's interpreter.

Regards,

Simon

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Fleet. As you know, Abberline questioned him strong on this point, and Israel was sure he heard 'Lipski'. Since he was willing to admit points on which he wasn't so sure (such as Pipeman's intentions and whether or not the two men were working together), we have to accept that 'Lipski' was what he heard. What we don't know is if BS Man said other things that Schwartz couldn't recall or make out, such as using 'Lipski' in a sentence.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Ah yes...context is everything Tom.....

Accept it?....hmmmm....really not sure.....I think there may be a certain amount of underestimating just how much the ear has to be trained to an alien form of pronunciation before getting it.

I'd imagine Lipski in Magyar and Lipski in Cockney would sound very different. And speaking of two syllables...were an American to hear the word "today" in my accent he'd probably say: "what?".......you really have to be used to hearing a strong alien accent to make out the words. We learn by experience.

[Fleetwood Mac]

How much variation can there be in a name like Lipski in any accent? I mean, it pretty much has to be either Lipski or Leepski, innit?

Maurice...do you have many foreign friends?....do you have a broad accent? English regional accents (working class) are very hard to decipher for the untrained ear. I wouldn't underestimate it on the basis that you are used to Cockney/Geordie/Scouse whatever.

[Tom_Wescott]

Accept it?....hmmmm....really not sure.....

From a historical perspective you have no choice. Many have argued that he said other things, such as Lizzie, etc. but there's no foundation for such speculation; it's simply fiction.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Fleetwood Mac]

Maurice...do you have many foreign friends?....do you have a broad accent? English regional accents (working class) are very hard to decipher for the untrained ear. I wouldn't underestimate it on the basis that you are used to Cockney/Geordie/Scouse whatever.

Just to make the point here.....and I'm not from the South so perhaps a Londoner can add something to this.....but if I said "today" in my accent it would sound something like...."t'daya"...a Hungarian or an American wouldn't understand it unless he was used to the accent.

Perhaps Cockney is similar. Seriously....I wouldn't underestimate how difficult to understand a broad English working class accent is to the untrained ear. Two syllables or otherwise.

[The Grave Maurice]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, Fleet. Perhaps if you can find anyone in England who pronounces Lipski in a manner that I would fail to recognize, I'd be willing to concede.

[Fleetwood Mac]

From a historical perspective you have no choice. Many have argued that he said other things, such as Lizzie, etc. but there's no foundation for such speculation; it's simply fiction.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Ok Tom....wll maybe we need a Cockney to shed some light on this.

My Sister lived in East London for 10 years....and contray to what's been said here.....it wouldn't simply be a case of: "Lipski" or "Lipskee"....

Cockney would be something like: "Lipsky"....and wouldn't be obvious to a foreigner exactly what was being said.

P.S. Course I have a choice Tom...someone puts a gun to my head and I still have a choice of how to react.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, Fleet. Perhaps if you can find anyone in England who pronounces Lipski in a manner that I would fail to recognize, I'd be willing to concede.

You'd be suprised Maurice....I see you're in Canada....not only is it dialect but the speed too. It would just come out so quickly that a foreigner....even an English speaking foreigner...would have trouble picking it out.

[Fleetwood Mac]

You'd be suprised Maurice....I see you're in Canada....not only is it dialect but the speed too. It would just come out so quickly that a foreigner....even an English speaking foreigner...would have trouble picking it out.

To add Maurice.....say a Brummie was to say the word "today" to you....it would sound something like: "t'dye"....you really wouldn't be able to pick out what was being said unless you were used to it. As I said don't underestimate it.

[Observer]

Whatever the accent, today and Lipski are two very different propositions. Lipski is a name a very simple two syllable name LIP SKI, it makes no difference how it's prounounced in Hungarian, in all pobability something like this LIP SKI. The fact is Schwartz was recalling what he heard, that is the name LIPSKI. Today can be prounounced differently according to differing accents, yes, but the word that Schwartz heard was Lipski. OK lets have a few words in best Cockney that closely resembles the name Lipski.

Observer