Did jack kill liz stride?

[DVV]

Schwartz may have been the George Hutchinson of Berner Street

I can't agree. Imo, Schwartz saw the killer.

It's erroneously thought that BS Man was not acting in a way that 'our Jack' would have behaved. Albert Cadosch's 'ear witness' testimony could almost have been an 'ear witness' to the Schwartz incident, sans 'Lipski!'.

Agreed. So much.
Then it's the dismissal of Schwartz, and not Schwartz, that you were referring at in your previous post.

Amitiés,
David

[Tom_Wescott]

I don't think it was either. I'm talking about the 'interpretation of Schwartz' and that we know so much about Jack that we can presume he wouldn't behave in the manner of BS man.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

Check your posts, Tom.
You'll spot the contradiction, I hope.

Let's put it straight.

BSM can be Jack in my opinion (and I agree with the comparison to Cadosch, etc).
Is that what you mean ?
If so, I still agree.

Amitiés,
David

[Tom_Wescott]

Yes, BS Man could have been Jack, same with Pipeman, or both.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

Pipeman is wonderful.
Whenever he has to run, he lights his pipe first.

[corey123]

Youre a decent fellow and haven't directly insulted me personally, so I have no grievance with you on any personal level,

Thank you Mike, and welcom back.

but to be clear, a thread doesnt belong to you or anyone, all that belongs to you are the comments you make to start one or to contribute to one.

Let me re-word that, on a thread I created, sorry.

Youve obviously missed the salient fact that I have responded to insults with the same, I dont insult people personally unless they have chosen to do so to me first.

Of coarse.

The only reason I would contribute to a thread at this point, as I pointed out yesterday, is to correct something that was a flagrant inaccuracy. There were no cottages within Dutfields Yard itself to intimidate a killer with his victim...as Tom stated there were. In fact it was a far superior location for a murder like Annie's or Kate's, had pm mutilation been a driver for Liz Strides murderer.

Well I think, from other posters post's on this thread that it has run rather dry.

As to the serial killer premise, Im glad for you that you feel enough evidence is available to warrant a conclusion, but from a prosectutorial stance, nothing that is in the historical records we have access to can confirm that suspicion of yours. Rather than accepting a serial killer of at least 5 as a start to your study.....any such conclusions should come at the end of your evaluations, once they can be demonstrably proven.

As the conclusions HAVE come at the end of my many evaluations. Never the less, I miss debating the issue on my other thread.


My point in posting hasnt changed since day one....to offer suggestions and ideas that challenge the unproven accepted premises so that new people to the study have varied perspectives, since many "experts" tell students what to believe, they dont suggest answers. Im sure youve noticed that virtually every book written about Jack has assumed a number of kills that can be associated with one mans "madness"....yet none have proven that even a Canonical Group is a valid concept.When a premise is unproven its a hypothesis or a belief....and thats what your serial killer concept is as of this moment.

All you would need to see that it is a killer is the past, present, and current history of killers. I wont go far into this issue, but you have heard mmost of my views on such issues, not all, but some.

Finally, I do know somethings that I have not shared here because the source shared information with me privately and requested that I not discuss the information with others.

As you have a right to do, but you, and others, will need to show the "Proof" you have.

I may be on from time to time, I may not, I may have my profile deleted as per my request...so I would suggest that you dont post anything directly to me from this point on.

I have no preference on whether you stay or not, that is your choice, but I have no issues(besides the ones I have said before) with you. The theory you present of coarse, but not you.

Yours truly



Regards[/QUOTE]

[Tom_Wescott]

I imagine his secret source is Simon Wood, so I wouldn't lose sleep over the 'evidence' Mike is withholding.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[corey123]

Tom,

No worries about the evidence. I know it was a serial killer, never had I the slightest worry of that. I agree about the myths. There are many and no need to add to them.

Plain an simple, he was a classic case of a sadistic serial killer. Trying to say he wasn't is like saying all the research on serial cases was all for naught, just for a few differences in injury.

Yours truly

[martin wilson]

did jack kill liz stride

yes he did, the murder site was in the yard of a club which had a predominatley jewish clientele. Anti semitism appears in three of the murders,Annie Chapman was killed on the jewish new year, during the ten days of atonement leading up to Yom Kippur,although I dont think this was intentional, but seeing the anti semetic trouble he caused I think from then on he tried to implicate the jews. Elizabeth Long described the man she saw as 'foreign' which was a euphemism for a jew, which must have delighted him. After 'liz long' gave her statement, 'long liz' was the next victim, and of course Catherine Eddowes and the Goulston street graffiti. By the way, does anyone know if Dukes Place, across from Mitre st was then known as 'the fruit market of the jews'? The knife that was later found was of the type used in jewish ritual slaughter, which can not have a point. Interestlingly it was blunted whereas jewish custom insists it must be razor sharp, possibly a mockery or perversion, although thats a long and strange road to go down, .It's possible to read an awful lot into jewish customs and I am an occams razor boy. This guy absolutley loved all the horror and outrage he caused, and he loved stirring up trouble for the jews, to digress slightly, for me, this explains the vile mutilation of Mary Kelly, because of the lord mayors show and he had to ruin the day, offer another 'attraction'. This guy is a megalomaniac attention seeker, which is why I think the ripper letters and the Lusk kidney need to be looked at.One of the letters or the kidney or both have got to be from him, sureley?

[corey123]

Martin,

interesting theory. Not one I would agree with besides that Jack did indeed kill Liz stride. Another Wilson, are you by chance, related to Jon Wilson who also posts on here?

[Hunter]

Welcome to the boards, Martin. Interesting; I was thinking this week about starting another thread about the Jewish connection- especially all that happened on the night of the double murder. It seems like a topic that is glanced over, but may be the 1000 lb gorilla in the room.

The knife you mention, even though it was found with blood, not far from Berner St. was quickly dismissed. If it had been made out of chalk, I guess it would have been rubbed out. Despite the alligations of anti-semitism within the poloice, it seems to me that they went out of their way to eradicate any possible connection.

As far as Stride's murder is concerned, I believe the witnesses at the club were lying about several things i.e.- they had never seen the woman before. The ones that were in and out of the yard in the final hour didn't see Liz though, PC Smith saw her right in front of the place at 12:35. And, Of course, there was no hanky panky going on in the Yard at night. The logical answer would be that they were scared of the implications in an already volatile environment, but because of the coverup, I wonder how much valuable information was not found.

[martin wilson]

Martin,

interesting theory. Not one I would agree with besides that Jack did indeed kill Liz stride. Another Wilson, are you by chance, related to Jon Wilson who also posts on here?

I dont know him, but more than likely he is some relation or other, we Wilsons get absolutely everywhere. I have no intention of ferociously defending my theory to the death, it's just a theory based on what I think are too many coincidences, love to hear what your objections are, words of two syllables or less please I am not all that bright best regards madmart

[corey123]

Martin,

I have stated many a reason, if you wish to know why I wouldn't go with your theory(which isn't that bad at all) is because of my own belief, which would take well over an hour to type out on my iPhone. If you wish to see the amny reasons I believe what I believe,check out my thread "serial killers, a pattern".
Just click on my profile and hit threads created by, it will be under there.

Welcom to the forums and good luck.
Yours truly.

[martin wilson]

Martin,

I have stated many a reason, if you wish to know why I wouldn't go with your theory(which isn't that bad at all) is because of my own belief, which would take well over an hour to type out on my iPhone. If you wish to see the amny reasons I believe what I believe,check out my thread "serial killers, a pattern".
Just click on my profile and hit threads created by, it will be under there.

Welcom to the forums and good luck.
Yours truly.

thank you, I am here to learn and this is a good start, because of my startlingly slow rate of comprehension it may be a while before I back to you, but I will, thank you also for your welcome, much appreciated. madmart

[martin wilson]

did jack kill liz stride

Welcome to the boards, Martin. Interesting; I was thinking this week about starting another thread about the Jewish connection- especially all that happened on the night of the double murder. It seems like a topic that is glanced over, but may be the 1000 lb gorilla in the room.

The knife you mention, even though it was found with blood, not far from Berner St. was quickly dismissed. If it had been made out of chalk, I guess it would have been rubbed out. Despite the alligations of anti-semitism within the poloice, it seems to me that they went out of their way to eradicate any possible connection.

As far as Stride's murder is concerned, I believe the witnesses at the club were lying about several things i.e.- they had never seen the woman before. The ones that were in and out of the yard in the final hour didn't see Liz though, PC Smith saw her right in front of the place at 12:35. And, Of course, there was no hanky panky going on in the Yard at night. The logical answer would be that they were scared of the implications in an already volatile environment, but because of the coverup, I wonder how much valuable information was not found.

apologies for the delay in replying, corey123 kindly suggested I read his threads, which I was in the middle of when I got tired, and as an insomniac I take any chance i get, didn't last long though and as it is going to take me a while to get through the reading I felt I should reply to you as a matter of courtesy. As for your point, why the very idea! blokes in drink, wanting to go with a woman (of which there seemed a plentiful supply) in a nice, handy, dark yard? I never heard of anything so ridiculous! No of course you are absolutely right, the clincher is of course that nobody ever saw anything or anybody doing anything, no time never, no sir.An honest answer would be yes, sometimes. This could be hugeley significant because it leads me to a very troubling thought.
Mr Israel Schwartz was a jewish gentleman.
Pipeman always seemed to me to be straight out of central casting. and in version two he had a knife, this has been suggested as the newspaper spicing it up, a very perceptive suggestion that the knife helped to explain why Mr Schwartz walked away from a woman being assaulted, or yet a third alternative called not getting your story straight, but of course this would completley destroy everything we know about the murder so it couldn't be could it? o.k so I have implicated Israel Schwartz in the cover up without a shred of evidence, later on I will also be impugning Mr Davies of 29 Hanbury St and how he used his yard as a knocking shop, no wonder I sign meself madmart. best regards.