Escape Routes From Dutfield's Yard: Pall Mall Gazette

[Archaic]

I found the following news article on the Ripper Wiki, thanks to John Bennet's hard work.

I've always wondered if the killer of Liz Stride might have escaped out the back way of Dutfield's Yard, as opposed to the usual scenario which has him escaping through the front gates after Diemschutz discovers the body and enters the club.

According to this article there were numerous possible routes out of the yard.

Any thoughts?

Thanks and best regards, Archaic

> Pall Mall Gazette of October 2, 1890

"The selfsame Sunday morn that heralded the discovery of the Mitre Square victim as the one that found another unfortunate lying in the gateway in Berner Street, St. George's East, with her throat cut.

It is true that since that time the gateway has been religiously closed after the last van has entered it. But then the vans are sometimes very late in arriving, and what is there to prevent a murderer decoying another victim there?

When you push open the gate it is as dark as Erebus; when the gate is pushed back there is an effectual screen from any prying passer by, although passers by, who are constituted very largely of the foreigners who reside in the locality, are far too scared to ever peep inside that gate with its terrible history; and, finally, there is always singing or some other form of entertainment going on at the International Club next door to effectually drown a faint shriek.

But what about the policeman on the beat, you say? The police on that beat have got so tired of opening that gate and finding nothing there since the murder that they have long ago despaired of ever finding anything, and consequently pass it now with the most complete indifference.

And, even should, by the most remote possibility, the murderer be disturbed by anybody opening the gate from the street entrance,
he is by no means caught in a trap, for there are plenty of backyards that can be scaled, and a great many courts and passages,
leading to Berner and other streets, to be easily reached.

On the whole, then, that gateway in Berner Street would form a very safe place for any operations of the Ripper just now."

[Rob Clack]

Hi Bun,

I don't think the author of this piece went into the yard. The only way in or out was the gate in Berner Street.

Rob

[Monty]

I agree with Rob,

Unless free running was en vogue in 1888.

Monty

[lynn cates]

hypothesis

Hello Archaic. I presume you are familiar with one hypothesis that has Liz's assailant move further into the yard as Diemschutz arrives, and later to go through the kitchen door and out the front doors whilst the cart driver is engaged.

It has also been put forward that her assailant mingled with the crowd gathered about the body and thence into the street as the crowd dispersed.

The best.
LC

[Rob Clack]

I agree with Rob,

Unless free running was en vogue in 1888.

Monty

Spring-heeled Jack?

Rob

[Archaic]

re: Possible Escape Routes

Hi, guys.

I don't know if the article is accurate, but that sentence certainly caught my attention.
I also don't know if the reporter actually visited Dutfield's Yard, but it would have been quite simple for him to do so, and the way he describes pushing open the gate & peering into the darkness at least sounds like personal experience.

>>Are there other reports by people who were definitely in the yard saying that there was absolutely NO possible way of getting out?
I know the police checked the backyard and stable area, but did they say escape was completely impossible no matter how motivated and physically fit one was? Did any police or reporters ever actually try it?
There's an illustration showing an old cart in the yard; if there were other objects like this anywhere near a wall, even a barrel or something, the killer might have used one of them to get himself over the wall. (I'm not saying he did, I'm just thinking out loud, so please don't clobber me! )

I've usually imagined Jack either hiding next to the wall behind the open gate as Diemschutz approached or as having gone further back into the yard, and then to have immediately run out when Diemschutz entered the club.

Hi, Lynn, yes I'm familiar with that theories that the killer exited through the club or mingled with the crowd. It's certainly possible.
Personally I feel those scenarios are somewhat less likely though, because the killer must have been in a very frustrated, angry and amped-up state with his adrenalin pumping after almost being caught red-handed murdering Liz. This is especially true if he had intended to do even worse things to her and been thwarted.
As a result of simple physiological processes he might have been a bit red in the face, perspiring, breathless, jittery, tense, etc., any of which would have made it harder for him to "play it cool" in the immediate aftermath of the murder no matter how brazen he was. Even if he didn't have any blood on himself, he's apparently still carrying the bloody knife since no murder weapon was found on the scene.

And he had absolutely no way of knowing if any people had remained inside the club when the others went outside- if so, they would certainly notice
a stranger entering from the back door & exiting out the front.
Running out the front gate when he had his chance would have been so much safer and simpler.

>>Does anyone know if Diemschutz left his pony cart right there by Liz's body? As far as I know he did.
So if the killer was in the back part of the yard when Diemschutz went into the club-house, he could have run out the front gates using
the pony & cart to shield him from the sight of anyone inside the clubhouse, even if the side door was standing open.

Thanks and best regards, Archaic

[Suzi]

Hi Bun
Interesting-
I'm always entranced by the idea that there may have been a scuttle away exit route via the back of a stable or such-like- maybe even over a back wall- in a spring heeled sort of way- but sadly through the sterling work done by our worthy chaps here- that seems highly unlikely. The idea of a quick lurk with the assembled throng and a down the road lurk seems more likely- perhaps even waiting- as the throng massed to get a closer look- then the lurk -with the crowd. [Before a dandy sprint to Mitre Square- if you believe that Liz was involved- which I don't- just a gut feeling]

Once Diemschutz's pony had shied and Mr D had leapt out- whip in hand (!) to have a poke round -I imagine that said pony would have skittered off towards the back of the yard taking the cart and it's cheap jewellery with it and stood nervously towards the back of the yard- probably very uneasy, turning and twisting around and more than likely kicking up a bit of a row. (That's just my opinion -knowing horses)

Interesting though

On this tomorrow and then off till Mon or Tues duty Wales visit! ( )

[Rob Clack]

Here's a detailed map of Dutfield's Yard



Rob

[Suzi]

Cheers Rob
OK what about up the stairs- into the forge on the top level- drop down and out of the forge (or across the roor I assume to be flat) out the back door- through the snicket into Batty's Gardens and up up and away!

Suz x

[perrymason]

Great diagram Rob, thanks for that.

I had heard that there was a ladder at the back running up a portion of the surrounding fence.....but Lynn I think makes a very important observation.

Jack or not, the killer does his nasty work very close to the time Diemshutz arrives at the yard entrance, its therefore reasonable to assume that had the killer tried to slip out the gates as he hears the cart approach, either Diemshutz or Fanny who is at her door off and on would have seen him.

Which leaves us with 3 options, since you point out that the gates were the only access point to the yard....aside from the club side door. He either must wait out Diemshutz until he dashes inside, he slips by the cart and horse unseen with Diemshutz right there on his cart, or he goes through the side door and perhaps exits onto Berner Street.

But the front door was locked, and the yard was empty at 12:40am, according to Eagle, and Lave. Im assuming that the door was later checked by the police and found to have been locked from the inside. That would mean it would have had to have been re-locked to have let someone out that way. Which would imply complicity.

Best regards Rob, all.

[Suzi]

Michael-
It's a Goads map! Must be true!!

[perrymason]

Michael-
It's a Goads map! Must be true!!

Well.. praise be to Goad then!!

Didnt Jane Coram make a 3D version of the yard at one time? With the unused stables and cottages and all?

My best regards Suzi

[Rob Clack]

Cheers Rob
OK what about up the stairs- into the forge on the top level- drop down and out of the forge (or across the roor I assume to be flat) out the back door- through the snicket into Batty's Gardens and up up and away!

Suz x

Hi Suzi,

Probably more hassle than its worth and we don't know how high the wall into Batty Gardens is, which I believe may be a high wall.

Rob X

[Garry Wroe]

Jack or not, the killer does his nasty work very close to the time Diemshutz arrives at the yard entrance, its therefore reasonable to assume that had the killer tried to slip out the gates as he hears the cart approach, either Diemshutz or Fanny who is at her door off and on would have seen him.

Precisely, Mike.

Which leaves us with 3 options, since you point out that the gates were the only access point to the yard....aside from the club side door. He either must wait out Diemshutz until he dashes inside, he slips by the cart and horse unseen with Diemshutz right there on his cart, or he goes through the side door and perhaps exits onto Berner Street.

Four options, Mike. Within two or three minutes of Diemshutz’s discovery of the body, it was noted that the blood flow from the throat wound was dripping into the grate at the bottom of the yard. More critically still, the blood that had pooled close to the body had already coagulated. This is strongly suggestive that the throat wound had been inflicted at least fifteen minutes earlier, a scenario that excludes any possibility of the killer having been disturbed by Diemschutz’s arrival. The fourth option, therefore, is that Stride was murdered immediately after the fracas witnessed by Israel Schwartz, and that the assailant departed the crime scene shortly before Fanny Mortimer appeared at her front door.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[perrymason]

Precisely, Mike.


Four options, Mike. Within two or three minutes of Diemshutz’s discovery of the body, it was noted that the blood flow from the throat wound was dripping into the grate at the bottom of the yard. More critically still, the blood that had pooled close to the body had already coagulated. This is strongly suggestive that the throat wound had been inflicted at least fifteen minutes earlier, a scenario that excludes any possibility of the killer having been disturbed by Diemschutz’s arrival. The fourth option, therefore, is that Stride was murdered immediately after the fracas witnessed by Israel Schwartz, and that the assailant departed the crime scene shortly before Fanny Mortimer appeared at her front door.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

Addition noted and agreed with, the murder may well have been committed minutes earlier than most believe Gary.

My best regards mate