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  • The Knife

    I am interested to know what people think about the idea of Stride being killed with
    a) her own knife
    b) a different knife to the type that cut the other victims.
    To me this is a key issue so I am keen for feedback.
    Many thanks
    Kate
    In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

  • #2
    getting the point

    Hello Kat. I should think it unlikely that Liz carried a knife.

    But the other suggestion seems just a given. The knife that killed Liz was short and rounded--not long and thin. If you have the A-Z you may wish to have a go at the article on Liz.

    I hope this tiny snippet is useful.

    The best.
    LC

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Kat, Lynn,...

      I dont think we can dismiss entirely that Liz did carry some sort of knife Lynn, Kate had a table knife on her when she ws found and we hear stories of other women carrying easy to access weapons on them during the "Autumn of Terror".

      I dont see why a rounded tip blade wouldnt work on Liz either myself, just like the one that was later found by Thomas Coram(?). I wonder how much credence they were giving at that point to the idea that both women were murdered by the same man and as such probably would have been killed with the same knife. Because Kates murder could not have practically been done with a knife with a rounded tip.

      We do also have in the case of Liz, an open side door to the Club with a kitchen and all sorts of knives inside. Mrs Diemshutz is said to have been in the lower dining room when Mr D runs in, so she may not have been keeping an eye on who leaves through the kitchen, or who may have popped into it. We do know Eagle likely goes right through it or by it at around 20 to 1.

      One thing that might make the kitchen thing viable is that he couldnt very well place it back into the sink or the drawer and not have it be found on the premises, so if the killer did use say a bread knife he took from the kitchen, he would have taken it with him and later discarded it.

      Best regards

      Comment


      • #4
        food for thought

        Hello Mike. There is much food for thought in your post.

        Oh, if only we had a list of club members and if one turned out to be Kosminski!

        Alas.

        The best.
        LC

        Comment


        • #5
          Is that knife on display?
          I confess that altruistic and cynically selfish talk seem to me about equally unreal. With all humility, I think 'whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might,' infinitely more important than the vain attempt to love one's neighbour as one's self. If you want to hit a bird on the wing you must have all your will in focus, you must not be thinking about yourself, and equally, you must not be thinking about your neighbour; you must be living with your eye on that bird. Every achievement is a bird on the wing.
          Oliver Wendell Holmes

          Comment


          • #6
            which knife?

            Hello Viper. Do you refer to the knife that killed Stride or Coram's knife?

            The best.
            LC

            Comment


            • #7
              Hello Lynn!
              The bloody knife that Coram found...did he find a catlin?
              I confess that altruistic and cynically selfish talk seem to me about equally unreal. With all humility, I think 'whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might,' infinitely more important than the vain attempt to love one's neighbour as one's self. If you want to hit a bird on the wing you must have all your will in focus, you must not be thinking about yourself, and equally, you must not be thinking about your neighbour; you must be living with your eye on that bird. Every achievement is a bird on the wing.
              Oliver Wendell Holmes

              Comment


              • #8
                A-Z

                Hello Viper. Well, the A-Z has it as a 9-10" dagger like knife. The coroner's report indicates it is not likely the instrument that did in Liz.

                Cheers.
                LC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks very much for your replies.
                  The reason I have asked is becuase of my belief that the knife of a killer such as JtR has such an important signficance that I cannot see him using a different one to kill different victims.
                  Now I know that if we were to compare JtR to the Yorkshire Ripper we do seem him using a variety of weapons such as hammer and chisle so that may blow a hole in my own arguement.
                  I do see the knife as an extention of his, er, member. And as I said to people at the conference I can't see a man usuing someone elses, er, member, to complete the deed.
                  In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Oh No

                    Hello Lynn!
                    Thank you for the reply. It really wouldn't matter if that was the knife used at the time to kill Stride, what matters is what they happened to do with it. If it is what we all would hope that it is, they found a catlin. The blunt end of the blade is important, it is part of a set...a set that can be dated, and tell a lot about the person using it. If the shape of the blades match the rest of the description, it sounds like a c.1840 J. H. Gemig catlin, and Jack would have had three other knifes from the set. It would be a surgical set used for amputation. Do we know what happened to that knife, or if anyone wrote down the makers stamp from the blade?
                    I confess that altruistic and cynically selfish talk seem to me about equally unreal. With all humility, I think 'whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might,' infinitely more important than the vain attempt to love one's neighbour as one's self. If you want to hit a bird on the wing you must have all your will in focus, you must not be thinking about yourself, and equally, you must not be thinking about your neighbour; you must be living with your eye on that bird. Every achievement is a bird on the wing.
                    Oliver Wendell Holmes

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Actually Kat, do not give up on all that thought. If that knife can be seen, or atleast the makers stamp looked into, you still maybe partially right. That is not the set of knives that Jack would have used, it would have been a second set, if the person is who I think, and that was a large catlin. Few people would have had both these sets, and Jack is one of them. Man, I could be right.
                      I confess that altruistic and cynically selfish talk seem to me about equally unreal. With all humility, I think 'whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might,' infinitely more important than the vain attempt to love one's neighbour as one's self. If you want to hit a bird on the wing you must have all your will in focus, you must not be thinking about yourself, and equally, you must not be thinking about your neighbour; you must be living with your eye on that bird. Every achievement is a bird on the wing.
                      Oliver Wendell Holmes

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                        Hello Kat. I should think it unlikely that Liz carried a knife.

                        But the other suggestion seems just a given. The knife that killed Liz was short and rounded--not long and thin. If you have the A-Z you may wish to have a go at the article on Liz.

                        I hope this tiny snippet is useful.

                        The best.
                        LC
                        Hi Lynn,

                        I don't find it unlikely at all that Liz might have carried a knife. Rough neighborhoods, rough customers and knives were cheap and easy to come by.

                        c.d.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          final disposition

                          Hello Viper. Unfortunately, I am unaware of the final disposition of the knife. Perhaps it was returned to its owner?

                          The best.
                          LC

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            maybe

                            Hello CD. Perhaps she did. I wonder if she had the stomach to use it?

                            I suppose it's a moot point given the purported swiftness of her demise.

                            The best.
                            LC

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              ok..thanks
                              I confess that altruistic and cynically selfish talk seem to me about equally unreal. With all humility, I think 'whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might,' infinitely more important than the vain attempt to love one's neighbour as one's self. If you want to hit a bird on the wing you must have all your will in focus, you must not be thinking about yourself, and equally, you must not be thinking about your neighbour; you must be living with your eye on that bird. Every achievement is a bird on the wing.
                              Oliver Wendell Holmes

                              Comment

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