Time of Death Analyzation

[Supe]

Lynn,

Is it not ironic that the 2 whose place in the canon is most tenuous also show such a disparity in cutting technique?

Ironic? No. But interesting that after Polly and Annie received two cuts, the last three of the Canonic 5 all received but one. You might be interested in "Suede and the Ripper" in Ripperologist 104 (July 2009) that analyzes the throat wounds to seven possible victims of Jack.

Don.

[lynn cates]

gratitude

Hello Supe. Thanks for the tip.

The best.
LC

[harry]

I cannot recall which one,but I am sure one of the witnesses leaving the club stated the yard was so dark he had to feel his way along the wall.Keep this in mind when assessing what happened at the entrance to the yard,where the light would have been little better.

[JTRSickert]

Wow, I only started this forum early this morning and it already takes up more than 3 pages! cool!!!

Here'a a question....IF JTR killed Liz at around 12:45 and had to at least walk fast enough to get away from Berner Street and get to Mitre Square, does anyone think he might be out of breath or too adrenalized to engage a prostitute in time? It just seems to me that if he narrowly avoided being detected at his last murder, why risk it by trying to pull off another? ME personally, if I were in his shoes, if I barely got away from committing a murder, I'd pack it in for the night and just try again another night. My instinct to protect myself I think would override my bloodlust.

[c.d.]

Hi JTR,

I think blood lust is going to trump reason most of the time. If Jack had to abort his plans, it must have been terribly frustrating to him. Think sex without orgasm.

c.d.

[Roy Corduroy]

I cannot recall which one,but I am sure one of the witnesses leaving the club stated the yard was so dark he had to feel his way along the wall.Keep this in mind when assessing what happened at the entrance to the yard,where the light would have been little better.

Wish we knew who said it. That's interesting, Harry. It was dark all right. From the Times Oct 1 -

For a distance of 18ft. or 20ft. from the street there is a dead wall on each side of the court, the effect of which is to enshroud the intervening space in absolute darkness after sunset. Further back some light is thrown into the court from the windows of a workmen's club, which occupies the whole length of the court on the right, and from a number of cottages occupied mainly by tailors and cigarette makers on the left. At the time when the murder was committed, however, the lights in all of the dwelling-houses in question had been extinguished, while such illumination as came from the club, being from the upper story, would fall on the cottages opposite, and would only serve to intensify the gloom of the rest of the court.

[JTRSickert]

So c.d. You saying saucy Jacky had a case of blue b@lls? lol

[Roy Corduroy]

Time of Death

Maybe Jack the Ripper lived nearby. Hence the early time of death.

[c.d.]

So c.d. You saying saucy Jacky had a case of blue b@lls? lol

In a manner of speaking, yes. Or to use another analogy, imagine being extremely hungry and sitting down to a great feast only to have it taken away from you. I think that was Jack's state of mind if he was the one that killed Liz.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

The swing of the gate came almost to Liz's feet. She was halfway between the gate entrance and the steps leading into the club kitchen.

The interruption theory is only one of many explanations why Jack did not further mutilate Liz.

Diemschutz's pony shied. It could have been from the smell of blood, the sight of the body, or he may have felt the body with his nose or hoof.

Jiminy Christmas.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[sdreid]

I would think the pony may well have shied due the sudden move of someone he saw, that is, the killer diving for cover.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Stan. That's what Diemschultz feared, and it is possible, but less likely than the other scenarios.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[JennyL]

There's never been any suggestion that the pony attached to the cart was in any danger or running over Stride's body. There was plenty of room-she was right up against the wall of the club.

The pony might have shied at the sight of the body.

The possibility that he shied "at the smell of blood" flowing into the gutter is extremely dubious when remembering that this pony walked all over a district filled with slaughterhouses and markets, etc--LOTS of blood all over the place. Diemschutz would have had a hell of an exciting ride around his route if his pony was as sensitive to blood in the gutter as some horse mythology claims.

The pony might also have shied at some startling movement he could see as he entered the yard ahead of Diemschutz, given his vastly superior ability to see in the dark-the killer escaping or hiding, as he had just been interrupted.

[Fisherman]

Jenny L writes:

"Diemschutz would have had a hell of an exciting ride around his route if his pony was as sensitive to blood in the gutter as some horse mythology claims."

Well, Jenny, it is somewhere stated by Diemschutz that his pony was a frisky one, and so he may well have been used to it shying away every now and then. And since I have been debating this thing in an earlier tread, I have to concur with Sam - there are numerous pointers in the literature telling us that horses shy away from the smell of blood. That would probably be individual, and vay from horse to horse, but horses are very sensitive animals and many of them are very easily spooked. I spend a lot of time around horses, so I know a bit about them too.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

...but that was not the main point I was going to make. That instead concerns itself with the main point of the thread itself. Does Strides early hour of death imply that she did not belong to Jack´s tally?

I think it does, and I think we have to look at it all in a more contextual manner than just the hour of the clock. Not all passing hours bring equal amounts of change. If two murders were committed at, say, three and four o´clock in the afternoon, respectively, then I would say that these hours represent much the same kind of context.
But comparing Strides hour of death to the other canonical death hours, is comparing a late hour WHEN THE PARTY WAS STILL ON in the East end - as effectively shown by the singing and dancing in the IWMEC - to hours when the street life would have died out, more or less.
It is comparing the last, desperate hour of a party to the deep sleep that follows in the hours to come.
It is comparing very dangerous hunting grounds, when lots and lots of people called it a night and could be expected to fill the streets on their way home, to the darkest and most secluded hours of the night, with minimized risks of running into people.
And we KNOW that Jack took advantage of these hours in every other case. Everything we can see at the murder spots also tells us that though Jack was a man who worked against the odds - killing in the open street is extremely dangerous - he was also a man who optimized his chances of getting as much time as possible alone with his victims. He started out by silencing and killing, before he set about opening the women up. In this way, he ensured silence, and gave himself the best chances possible of getting his job done in peace and seclusion. These actions and preferences tell us that it would be very consistent for such a killer to define his killing window of time to the few hours when the streets could be expected to be relatively empty. Straying from that would involve huge risks - just as it would involve a clear possibility of not being able to do what he came for. Why would he take that risk? Later hours were close at hand, and there was no shortage of prey, evidently.

I think that Strides time of death is an almighty pointer AWAY from Jack.

The best,
Fisherman