Elizabeth Stride ..who killed her ?

[Michael W Richards]

Nichols, Chapman & Eddowes have been proposed by myself & others as the only truly reliable Ripper victims since the late 90's.
This, primarily because there has always been a bit of doubt about Kelly.
You don't need to be an 'expert' to see the evidence behind that belief.

And your beliefs whatever they are do not put you in the expert category Jon, just because some "others" agree with you. No offense intended..but your opinion isn't in that same league as Mr Evans's is.

There is more than a bit of doubt about Kelly...her murder has none of the prerequisite markers and all the signs of a killer known intimately by her. As for Stride....well lets just say Im glad people haven't started including victims with skinned knees or paper cuts in the Canonicals..yet.

[c.d.]

It was around 2004-2006 cd, I don't recall exactly when but I feel sure enough about the facts to include his name with my remarks.

cheers

Hello Michael,

I certainly share your opinion regarding Stewart so it it too bad that you couldn't reproduce his post exactly. His opinion carries a great deal of weight.

c.d.

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Michael,

I don't recall ever seeing a post to that effect by Stewart. Maybe it was before I came on board. Can you direct us to it? Thanks.

c.d.

It was around 2004-2006 cd, I don't recall exactly when but I feel sure enough about the facts to include his name with my remarks.

cheers

[c.d.]

You know this would have been so much easier before Ripperologists created a killer that has no fixed MO or Signature, doesn't repeat crimes, has skill and knowledge that increases then decreases then increases, and varies his victims from women in their forties outdoors to a woman in her twenties in her own bed.

This Canonical theory does not now, nor has it ever, been sustainable by review of the known evidence. Why do we need to re-hash failed premises?

Hello Michael,

Except that that response doesn't really explain why the club apparently felt the need to do what you believe they did.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

Nichols, Chapman & Eddowes have been proposed by myself & others as the only truly reliable Ripper victims since the late 90's.
This, primarily because there has always been a bit of doubt about Kelly.
You don't need to be an 'expert' to see the evidence behind that belief.

[c.d.]

Hello Michael,

I don't recall ever seeing a post to that effect by Stewart. Maybe it was before I came on board. Can you direct us to it? Thanks.

c.d.

[Michael W Richards]

Stride's murder was the third (if you include Tabram) in a similar series in a short period of time. So it is hard to believe, as Abby says, that they felt the onus of guilt so much so that they took the extremely risk move to concoct a phony story rather than simply cooperate with the police as much as possible.

c.d.

You know this would have been so much easier before Ripperologists created a killer that has no fixed MO or Signature, doesn't repeat crimes, has skill and knowledge that increases then decreases then increases, and varies his victims from women in their forties outdoors to a woman in her twenties in her own bed.

This Canonical theory does not now, nor has it ever, been sustainable by review of the known evidence. Why do we need to re-hash failed premises?

[Michael W Richards]

"...and Ive found agreement with that conclusion by many here who by virtue of their work in this field are considered experts."

Hello Michael,

Who exactly would these "experts" be?

c.d.

Since you asked...I love having this in my pocket at all times, one expert is Stewart Evans, who when asked directly by me on this forum about how many victims he believed should be attributed to Jack he said 2, perhaps 3.

Im very comfortable agreeing with that whole heartedly, and with the company I keep whilst doing it.

With all due respect, I don't put anyones opinions about these cases above this individual, since I feel he is arguably the most informed person on this subject anywhere, and extremely credible as such.

Another gentleman who agrees with this thinking is Simon Wood, again, a highly respected and very well informed contributor to the topic. Im happy to agree with Simons dissent from most of the accepted nonsense as well.

My apologies to Stewart for re-offering an opinion he gave to me here many years ago.

[Michael W Richards]

if the club or any of its members had anything to do with strides murder, wouldn't the easiest, safest thing to do is to remove her body and put it away from the club?Like with Diemshitz cart perhaps? and keep your mouths shut?Instead of some convoluted conspiracy?

Her blood ran down their gutter inside the gate for almost 20 feet. What...just suck that up with straws and spit into the street?

[c.d.]

"...and Ive found agreement with that conclusion by many here who by virtue of their work in this field are considered experts."

Hello Michael,

Who exactly would these "experts" be?

c.d.

[Michael W Richards]

We don't know that they weren't killed by the same man either, but that doesn't stop you patronizing anyone who does examine the evidence and find this to be work of a serial killer. As I said before, Michael, if it was down to you there wouldn't have been a Yorkshire Ripper because he used different weapons and methods when dispatching his victims. Now compare that to a group of women all murdered within walking distance of one another, their throats cut and their bodies mutilated.

Your belief that the evidence reveals a serial killer within these Unsolved Files I agree with, there are at least 2 to my eye...1 man that killed 2 or 3 Canonicals and one man or more that made people into Torsos. That being said, its clear to anyone who can read that at least 3 of the Five Canonicals have case evidence that concerns their murders in terms of possible alternative explanations to the over arching assumptions by many that a morphing maniac changes his stripes every subsequent kill. Liz, Kate and Mary all have extremely recent separations from their mates, for one, and all 3 of these women have characteristics that are unique to each respective murder, characteristics that do not suggest the same killer who found his victims soliciting, and then killed consecutive victims in almost identical fashion.

You believe cutting is the definitive variable that shows us serial activity? Almost every man in that area had, or could get, knives. Many of them were criminals, some who were later revealed to be killers. All these bad guys stayed off the streets so one madman could own the neighborhood? Does that really sound plausible to you?


Let's assume, arguendo, that you're right about Schwartz and he was a phony witness designed to draw suspicion away from the club. This doesn't by itself prove that the murderer was connected to the club at all. It could mean that a murder had been committed on their premises and they didn't want the police to have an excuse to shut them down. At least we both cast doubts over Schwartz's credibility. I, myself, find it mighty convenient that he happened to witness an assault when no one else nearby saw or heard anything, and the only word out of the man's mouth was an anti-semitic slur. However, I draw the line at believing the entire thing was a conspiracy theory.

If Schwartz lied, or was convinced to lie, it was to save the club. Or someone at it. There is no reason to dismiss this as a real possibility since Israels sighting is nowhere to be found in the Inquest data available, and the club and its members were perceived as Anarchists before any murder happened. When added to the fact that one of the most credible statements corroborates others that suggest the street was almost certainly empty of people other than the young couple after the last legitimate sighting of Liz at 12:35. If she isn't seen within the 25 minutes that exists before Louis said he arrives, then it stands to reason she is already in the passageway when she met her killer, and that the killer was already on the premises...because there is nobody but Israel that states anyone was on the street during that time aside from the young couple.

Regards

[Michael W Richards]

You will notice, Harry, that, despite his patronising advice, Michael has somehow narrowed the possible victims down to 5.

First Ill address this......I have narrowed the kills of one man in these cases to 2.... perhaps 3 Jon, as Ive stated many times, which yes, means someone killed at least 2 women. The most base measure of a serial killer...2 or more victims. I believe thats what the known evidence suggests...and Ive found agreement with that conclusion by many here who by virtue of their work in this field are considered experts.

Which means there are a myriad of explanations for the much larger number of murders within the remaining unsolved attacks and murders file that have nothing at all to do with serial killing or catalogued serial killing motivations.

Cheers

[c.d.]

"If Schwartz did see what he claims he saw, then 'BS Man' is almost undoubtedly Stride's killer, as the chances of her being assaulted by a second man are slim to none."

Hello Harry,

Even if Liz was technically assaulted by the B.S. man, we have no way of knowing the intent behind it. For all we know, Liz might have been the instigator of the whole encounter. The B.S. man might have simply wanted to give her a good shove for mouthing off to him with no real intention of wanting to hurt her. Just a bit of dust up with a potential client. Not at all unusual.

So many factors including the whole cachous business indicate that this very well may have been the case and that her real killer came along after the B.S. man had left the scene.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Harry,

I don't see how Schwartz can be faulted per se if nobody else saw anything. And I may be wrong but I believe that "Lipski" was the only word he understood not simply the only word directed to him. It certainly follows if Schwartz had a distinctive Jewish appearance and the B.S. man felt that he was about to interject himself into his business that that would be the slur that he uttered.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Stride's murder was the third (if you include Tabram) in a similar series in a short period of time. So it is hard to believe, as Abby says, that they felt the onus of guilt so much so that they took the extremely risk move to concoct a phony story rather than simply cooperate with the police as much as possible.

c.d.