Those Damned Cachous

[RockySullivan]

The caschous are a red herring. Its well known in forensics that people can die, be in fights, horrible violent accidents and their bodies found with something clutched in their hands.

Stride probably had them in her hand when she was attacked and simply held on to them. whether by reflex or choice.

Were they given to her moment before she was killed? Why? To distract her maybe. I don't think there a red herring necessarily. If they were given to her by the killer, was he not afraid the cachous would point to him or did he not have a chance to take them from her

[Jon Guy]

The caschous are a red herring. Its well known in forensics that people can die, be in fights, horrible violent accidents and their bodies found with something clutched in their hands.

Stride probably had them in her hand when she was attacked and simply held on to them. whether by reflex or choice.

Absolutely, Abby.
The fact that she is found dead holding them kind of points to the fact she was holding them when she was killed.

[Abby Normal]

The caschous are a red herring. Its well known in forensics that people can die, be in fights, horrible violent accidents and their bodies found with something clutched in their hands.

Stride probably had them in her hand when she was attacked and simply held on to them. whether by reflex or choice.

[Robert]

Nope.

[RockySullivan]

The Sherlock Holmes film the woman in green is on. It contains lots of references to the ripper. In one scene a man a murdered man is found clenching his fist with a Pembroke Pines matchbook in his hands. Holmes immediately deduces the victim grabbed the matches & clenched on to them to point in the direction of his killer. I know it's just a movie but could stride have been trying to leave a clue to the identity of her killer by clenching on to the cachous?

[curious4]

Besant and co

Hello Dave,

There you go again, tempting me with new book titles. I shall soon be reduced to making tunnels through the piles of books I can't bear to part with to get out! I did fish out some Jack London books from 1914 with the intent of selling them on E-bay, but decided I had no idea how to do it and back they went!

I would never in a million years belittle the bravery of the Match Girls. They had literally everything to lose, but still stood up for what they believed in. Where Annie Besant and co came in was to publicise what conditions the girls were working under and it is a sad fact that the rich and powerful get listened to, more than the so-called down-trodden. I have, however, no illusions about the do-gooders. They had there own agenda.

All good wishes,
Gwyneth

[Cogidubnus]

You mention Besant but....

Off-topic a bit I know, but I'd contend the Match Girls did more in this respect than any other single group...remembering how naive I was in my teenage years, it still strikes me as incredible that some of the organisers were really that young...but maybe I'm over-influenced by Louise Raw's truly wonderful book.

All the best

Dave

[curious4]

White males

Hello Errata,

Musn't forget that there were at least some females among the "do-gooders". Besant, for one and Josephine Butler and the "power behind the throne" Henrietta Barnett. Although I suspect the "people like us and people like them" attitude was a little more pronounced among the female of the species.

Nevertheless, I do think that the upper class do-gooders did have a part to play. They had the contacts, money and pondus to lend some weight to the debate. On their own, I think the socialists etc could have gone the way of Wat Tyler. Whatever their motives, the do-gooders did help to bring about change.

Best wishes,
C4

[Errata]

Hello Errata,

Point taken, but I don't think you could put William Morris into this category. He wanted to promote socialism with the aim of improving workers' rights. In fact he praised the jewish workers for what they had achieved. He was also continually tortured by the fact that, being from a wealthy and privileged background, he could never fully appreciate the problems of the poor of the East End.

Well the Jews came from places where socialism had been the way of life for generations, so of course they had a talent for it. We still do. On the other hand, even KNOWING that someone is doing something better than you has historically never been a deterrent for some white male blowhard trying to tell people what to do. Not because they aren't doing it well, but clearly they could be doing it better with said pompous white male blowhard's assistance. I swear to god, my dad once gave me directions to my own house in one of his little superiority spells.

But I think you're dead on with the timing thing. I don't know William Morris, he could have been a lovely man, but I think the argument that someone won't tell a group of people how to live without being a member of that group is a bit thin. But the timing works nicely.

*and I say male, because at this time period it would be white men, but since the sixties women have proved to be equally thick regarding this issue.

[curious4]

Paternalism

Hello Errata,

Point taken, but I don't think you could put William Morris into this category. He wanted to promote socialism with the aim of improving workers' rights. In fact he praised the jewish workers for what they had achieved. He was also continually tortured by the fact that, being from a wealthy and privileged background, he could never fully appreciate the problems of the poor of the East End.

He visited the Berner street club on a number of occasions, but, as he had so recently spoken there, I doubt that he would have been booked to chair a debate there so soon afterwards.

Best wishes,
C4

P.S. Don't recall anything about the English in India forcing indian women to wear english clothes, although in the early days of the Raj, soldiers were encouraged to marry indian women, and, as such, those married to british soldiers might have wanted to look the part.

[Errata]

And wouldn't the subject of the debate, "Why Jews should be socialists" be a little out of his expertise? Surely this debate would be better lead by someone who was actually jewish?

Best wishes,
C4

There has never been a shortage of people perfectly willing to tell another kind of people how they should think, feel, or run their lives. It's called Paternalism. And in this particular period of time, the English white protestants and the Northern US protestants really excel at the practice.

Convincing Indian women to wear English clothing when no part of India is suited to English clothing is a particular favorite of mine.

[curious4]

Morris

I do know Lynn that on the night she was murdered Morris was supposed to have been the guest speaker, not Eagle, and the reason for cancelling Morris was concerns over the security onsite...it seems threats were made to disrupt Morris's speech.

I am hypothesizing that they may have hired security for that reason.

Cheers

Hello Michael,

Would you be referring to William Morris here? I have him speaking at the club on Sept 22nd 1888. (The journal of William Morris) Seems unlikely that he would be back again so soon, as he travelled all over the country to lecture on socialism. And wouldn't the subject of the debate, "Why Jews should be socialists" be a little out of his expertise? Surely this debate would be better lead by someone who was actually jewish?

He didn't seem to be afraid of opposition, marching on Bloody Sunday, for example.

Mistaken here or wrong Morris?

Best wishes,
C4

[Lechmere]

Yes I'd half forgotten that expression - been in Essex too long.

[MrBarnett]

Ed,

If you mean by 'faintly ludicrous', hardly ludicrous at all, then I am with you. Even with their horns, some of those Jewish anarchists must have been quite appealing.

And if Liz and her chap had've jumped a cab, they would have asked to be taken 'up the uvver end', not 'up west'. You are several decades out there, me old mucker.

MrB

[The Good Michael]

What is it about the Stride case that attracts so much myth, groundless speculation, blatant errors, and just utter nonsense? I'd swear that so many otherwise rational people have blinders on when it comes to this murder and everything surrounding it. Like it's laced with PCP or something.

To be fair, there are many irrational people attracted as well.

Mike