Those Damned Cachous

[Batman]

Hello Batman. Thanks.

Why should he shout? The fracas, itself, frightened Schwartz away.

Cheers.
LC

He was only walking away. When Lipski was shouted out, a man with a pipe started moving towards Schwartz (basically taking the same path) and Schwartz started running away. He couldn't say if the man was following him, but since there was no altercation between them, its more likely that this guy was doing what Schwartz was doing... getting the hell out of dodge in a dangerous part of London.

[Batman]

Scotland Yard did use interpreters, so language was never an obstacle.

Example:
"On the application of Detective Inspector Abberline of Scotland yard, Mr. Saunders again remanded the accused for full inquiries to be made. He also allowed Inspector Abberline to interview the accused, with the interpreter, Mr. Savage, to ascertain if he would give any information as to where he was on certain dates."
Echo, 26 Sept. 1888.

In 1888 interpreters would have been well established in London for police investigations etc. However the question is, why didn't Schwartz appear at the 'inquest'?

So do we have examples of interpreters at inquests at the time? If you can find examples of that, then you have a case maybe. However it seems to me that interpreters where not brought into these inquests to interpret any witness testimony.

Did Kozminski even have an interpreter when he got into trouble for his dog walk? I think he had to speak in basic english. Give name, address, say yes to charges, agree to pay fine etc.

[lynn cates]

and

Hello Tom. Thanks.

"Given the proximity to the Lipski murder (next street over) I'd say it's a perfect choice of epithet."

Agreed. It sounds like a racial slur, emitted by a Gentile.

"Schwartz, before he crossed the street, was right on top of the 'couple'. BS Man had every opportunity to notice there was a man behind him and take a peek. Since Schwartz's Jewish appearance was "pronounced" I doubt it would have taken much more than a peek."

Well, if he could see clearly AND he evinced certain racial characteristics AND BSM were aware of his surroundings and not focused entirely on Liz and . . .

"Or 'Lipski' could have been used to mean 'murder' and may have had no personal Jewish connotations intended by BS Man or directed towards Schwartz."

Possibly. But should BSM announce his intentions in front of the witness IF he were aware of him? And then carry them out?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

fracas

Hello Batman. Thanks.

Why should he shout? The fracas, itself, frightened Schwartz away.

Cheers.
LC

[RockySullivan]

Why would Lipski swallow acid? Perhaps because he knew the game was up and he faced a public trial and the hangman's rope. There have been several cases of killers who tried to evade arrest by attempting suicide.

Yes I guess that's possible. What do you make of the fact that Schwartz was chased to railroad arch after BS man shouted lipski and later pinchin torso turns up under the railway arch with lipski written by it? Could The ripper have been afraid Schwartz could id him and it might have been a threat or warning to Schwartz about what could happen to him or his wife? Assuming he still lived close by. The lipski graffito and it's proximity to where Schwartz was chased is a coincidence that's not frequently addressed

[Tom_Wescott]

To my mind, the most logical reason Schwartz was kept secret is because he was their best bet at catching the Ripper at that time. The City allowed their best witness (Lawende) to give evidence, but kept that evidence truncated.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Wickerman]

The most likely reason is that he didn't speak enough English.

Scotland Yard did use interpreters, so language was never an obstacle.

Example:
"On the application of Detective Inspector Abberline of Scotland yard, Mr. Saunders again remanded the accused for full inquiries to be made. He also allowed Inspector Abberline to interview the accused, with the interpreter, Mr. Savage, to ascertain if he would give any information as to where he was on certain dates."
Echo, 26 Sept. 1888.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Mike. Since all your ideas derive from me, it's no surprise this is any different, although I see you've expounded upon my theory that Liz was in the yard when Eagle entered at 12:40am. She may not have been, but she may have been. Naturally, Eagle would not have admitted this to police. However, it's a huge stretch to go from a chance and possibly unfriendly meeting (if Eagle was BS Man) to a secret relationship between Eagle and Stride. Making this even more unlikely is that both were with different paramours that evening.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Michael W Richards]

All the known data points to Morris Eagle and Stride having a secret relationship? There must be a butt load of data out there known only to yourself.

But if Stride was dating Morris, then who were all those men she was seen canoodling with while Morris was stuck at the club with his other, younger girlfriend?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Im going to clarify the point so you don't get confused....its far more likely, based on the existing evidence, that Liz Stride was off the street and in the passageway where she dies at around 12:45 than it is Israel was an authentic witness to something. Based on corroborated witnesses. Ergo, she was likely in there when Morris re-arrives around 12:40. It far more likely that people with a lot to lose will lie before people who have nothing to lose will. Its far more likely that Liz's friends she spoke with that night were not clients on that same night, since there is no evidence she went somewhere private with any of them.

And its more likely that 3 witnesses who corroborated their times independently with others are believable, compared with individual accounts from people associated with the club that have zero corroboration.

This is based on evidence, not some hunch you might have about Morris being BSM....its probable there never was any altercation as described by Schwartz in the first place, and Schwartz not involved with the Inquest into Liz's death in any fashion is proof of that contention.

You predilection for eliminating any evidence that doesn't fit with your own views is a matter of record. Just don't falsely represent what others post though, ok? Fooling yourself is fine, deliberately deceiving others isn't.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hello CD. Thanks.

Why would "Lipski" be a good choice? In fact, why would ANY Jewish racial slur be appropriate on a poorly lighted street where one was engaged in a dispute with a woman and who may or may not have had a passing glimpse of Schwartz?

Cheers.
LC

Given the proximity to the Lipski murder (next street over) I'd say it's a perfect choice of epithet. Schwartz, before he crossed the street, was right on top of the 'couple'. BS Man had every opportunity to notice there was a man behind him and take a peek. Since Schwartz's Jewish appearance was "pronounced" I doubt it would have taken much more than a peak.

Or 'Lipski' could have been used to mean 'murder' and may have had no personal Jewish connotations intended by BS Man or directed towards Schwartz.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Batman]

Hello CD. Thanks.

Why would "Lipski" be a good choice? In fact, why would ANY Jewish racial slur be appropriate on a poorly lighted street where one was engaged in a dispute with a woman and who may or may not have had a passing glimpse of Schwartz?

Cheers.
LC

To frighten Scwartz away obviously and it worked perfectly well and even more so because till this day we have Stride deniars who don't even think JtR did it

[lynn cates]

ethnicity

Hello Michael. Bingo!

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

racial slur

Hello Tom. Thanks.

"I don't understand Lynn's logic, since the club members, in spite of their heritage, were about as anti-Jew as one could get (pre-Nazi, that is)."

My reasoning? If I am a club member and had devised a story about a dispute, and GIVEN I wanted known that he was a Gentile--and not Jewish--what more natural than a racial slur against Jews? Note, this insult could apply equally to Orthodox OR Anarchists.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

recognise

Hello CD. Thanks.

Why would "Lipski" be a good choice? In fact, why would ANY Jewish racial slur be appropriate on a poorly lighted street where one was engaged in a dispute with a woman and who may or may not have had a passing glimpse of Schwartz?

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

Hello Michael,

For about the ten millionth time no one knows why Schwartz did not appear at the inquest. It could have been a completely innocuous reason. Therefore, constantly citing it does nothing to bolster your argument.

c.d.

The most likely reason is that he didn't speak enough English.