If Liz Had Been Mutilated

[Malcolm X]

I'm sorry, Sam but I just can't buy the whole different cut argument. Liz was a prostitute and she had her throat cut as opposed to being shot or beaten with a baseball bat. There are just too many varibles in play. Did Jack have the exact same grip on the knife as before? Was his victim at exactly the same angle as before? Did she fight back more than the others? Did her scarf affect how he made his cut? Could he have slipped or been off balance as he made his move? In any event, he accomplished his purpose.

c.d.

exactly....the Carotid artery was not severed and Stride would have bled to death slowly, in comparison to other victims...this doesn't mean she wasn't a ripper victim though, the cut was long but not that deep, but it did sever her wind pipe, it seems like he applied the most pressure to the knife; to the front of her neck.

why he didn't do a second cut, is maybe because he heard a cart comming along.

[c.d.]

Hi Sam,

Two previous victims doesn't really establish much of a pattern especially if the earlier victims had been drinking and been caught off guard. Liz had the benefit of reading about those murders and may have been much more on her guard and therefore harder to kill.

What exactly constitutes a "proper job?" His aim was to kill her which he did. It was dark. Jack rightly concluded that he had accomplished his intended purpose which was to kill her. I can't see him checking the wound to make sure he was consistent.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hi Michael,

The point is (if it was Jack) that we simply don't know how much time Jack would have had in which to mutilate her. We can only speculate. Again, the interruption doesn't have to come from Diemschutz. There could be any number of reasons including just good old paranoia on the part of Jack. And Liz was not the last woman on earth.

c.d.

[Malcolm X]

Hi again,

Thanks for addressing that earlier issue fully Sam, ......I didnt doubt you.

I also agree with you on the recent exchanges....cd if you are looking to include Liz based on the proficiency of the throat cut as relates to ones that very nearly severed the head from the body,... I would think thats actually another factor to use to rule him out rather than include him.

no not at all, this far greater cut is post mortem, because to do this to a victim that's still alive; means he'll get covered in blood.....look at the blood sprays/ patterns from other victims, either on a fence or on a wall etc, he slit deeply into the side of the neck first......but Stride wasn't cut to that side of the neck ( facing well away from him) deeply enough, but could still be the ripper

[DVV]

Very recently Ive begun to think that James Browns encounter at around 12:45 might have been the one that really matters here.

Sounds interesting, Mike.
Could you tell us more?

Amitiés mon cher,
David

[c.d.]

Sounds interesting, Mike.
Could you tell us more?

Amitiés mon cher,
David

The "Godfather of Soul?" Oh wait, that was James Brown.

c.d.

[DVV]

Not tonight, cd, maybe another night...

[c.d.]

I was watching Tiger Woods on tv last weekend. The announcer commented on one of his bad decisions (and hence a bad shot) by saying "that was very un-Tiger like." Still it was Tiger who hit the shot.

Draw your own conclusions.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Not tonight, cd, maybe another night...

You'd say anything but your prayers.

c.d.

[Malcolm X]

Brown's suspect is of average build..but he's not a good witness, he cant remember or even describe much ... but he does get the same long overcoat that BS had, similar height too and that's about it....but he does confirm recognising Stride in the mortuary.

[Tom_Wescott]

....cd if you are looking to include Liz based on the proficiency of the throat cut as relates to ones that very nearly severed the head from the body,... I would think thats actually another factor to use to rule him out rather than include him.

This is becoming a confused issue. The severity of the wound on Stride is certainly in contrast to that of the other victims, but then the severity of the wounds on Kelly are in stark contrast to that of Nichols. So I'd say this is more a matter of opportunity and time than it is of M.O.

What is important here is that the method used on Stride is identical to that of the other women. It stands completely apart from all of the other unsolved murders of 1888...except the Ripper victims. It fits like a glove. And the clincher? Same as always...killed within an hour's time and 10 minute's walk of Eddowes.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

Hi Malcolm,
"same long overcoat that BS had"?
Where did you find that?

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

This is becoming a confused issue. The severity of the wound on Stride is certainly in contrast to that of the other victims, but then the severity of the wounds on Kelly are in stark contrast to that of Nichols. So I'd say this is more a matter of opportunity and time than it is of M.O.

What is important here is that the method used on Stride is identical to that of the other women. It stands completely apart from all of the other unsolved murders of 1888...except the Ripper victims. It fits like a glove. And the clincher? Same as always...killed within an hour's time and 10 minute's walk of Eddowes.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Fully agreed. Though I don't know how things ran.

Amitiés,
David

[perrymason]

Sounds interesting, Mike.
Could you tell us more?

Amitiés mon cher,
David

Hi David,

Ok....Its been since I first read these stories that I suspected Liz was not a Ripper victim, and for all that time using Schwartz has facilitated that argument, because his story provides an assailant not likely Jack accosting the victim feet from the spot where she dies...she is cut from 1 to 10 minutes after that event, courtesy of Blackwell.

He has been handy in that regard.

However, I have been increasingly suspicious of Schwartz based on his story for being there, the members statements, and a potential allegiance to the club, who benifitted greatly from his offsite encounter story, and the timing and story of Goldstein.

In just the last few days Im wondering why I would back a statement from a source I wasnt so sure of, one that may well have Club reasons for telling the story ...and then I realized, the contemporary police showed no indication that they gave him anymore credibility than George Hutchinson by November 15th-16th. He is persona non grata at the Inquest, the transcript of his statement is a police authorities recollection of it, and there is no indication he was asked to view anyone that had been taken in on suspicion at a later date. He comes in, gives his story, and is effectively finished with the case.

Brown was living in the immediate area at that time, is not a Socialist Jew if surname is an indication, was asked to testify at the Inquest and gave an account of the deceased and a suspect that could easily be construed as intimidation on the part of the male...he may have blocked her passage with his arm on the wall,... OR a man picking up a prostitute..... he was sure it was Liz at the Mortuary, he has approx times of the initial sighting AND the call for help by the club members, he tells us the rain had stopped by 12:10am... which was a detail that isnt relevant to the death, but accurate none the less,....his man is decidely different than Schwartz's, and sober...

I fully realize that if I abandon Schwartz, Browns story could easily be seen as a pick up of an Unfortunate....but I suppose the real story is what I want here, not just for the killer not to be Jack.

Best regards David.

[Malcolm X]

Hi Malcolm,
"same long overcoat that BS had"?
Where did you find that?

Amitiés,
David

sorry my mistake...