The green velvet patch

[claire]

Yes, you had the Sailors' Home on Well Street, a spit and a skip from Berner Street (where, incidentally, Joseph Conrad stayed a few times) and a bunch of other places around (no big surprise...the area had been a welcoming stop-off for sailors for aeons [the Prince of Denmark, opened in 1828, was very close to the sailors' place, named, allegedly, to encourage the patronage of Scandinavian sailors]).

Interesting about the velvet...

[Monty]

Funny you should mention that Claire,
In Henry Mayhews study of the Victorian underworld, its reported that there was alot of Scandanavian presence in that area, with a fair few Swedish flags adoring pubs and lodging houses. There was also a decent Dutch presence too and they also had pubs that specialised in Dutch ditties and dancing.

[Monty]

Is the Jewish direction wrong ?

Just supposing, so no need for over reaction but do you reckon that the vogue for a Jewish connection re the double event may have a challenger?

Lawendes description, Strides location, velvet piece...does this explain why the police got all excited over Sadler?

Just mere thoughts while I smoke my pipe.

Monty

[Suzi]

Hey guys-
It appears that Disraeli had a velvet related unpleasantness! Google 'Velvet in the Victorian period'!!-as you do..
Seriously though there does seem to be a connection (!) with Jews and velvet in many rather odd ways...carrying on googling me.........
'The Juwes are the men that won't be velveted etc etc '-serious chalkin' error

AND did you all know that 'Tipping the Velvet' was Victorian slang for C****lingus (Not sure I'm allowed to type that!!!)... Hmmmmmmmmmmm odd but interesting 'eh.......

...... Quote from The A-Z ' At 7.00pm she returned to the lodging house (at 32 Flower and Dean St), where she borrowed a clothes brush from Charles Preston, and gave Catherine Lane a *'piece of velvet' to look after until she came back. She left looking cheerful'

*' are mine there!

Ooooh Gawd Anna what have we started here? x

[claire]

Just supposing, so no need for over reaction but do you reckon that the vogue for a Jewish connection re the double event may have a challenger?

Lawendes description, Strides location, velvet piece...does this explain why the police got all excited over Sadler?

Just mere thoughts while I smoke my pipe.

Monty

Funny, this has been dancing a gentle little jig at the back of my mind for the past few weeks. Might well be just another pub-flanked cul-de-sac, but it doesn't take a great deal of logical contortion to get there.

[Suzi]

Hi Claire- That's a point but there are way too many cul-de-sacs in Ripperland most of them doing what cul-de-sacs do!! Leading us up an alley-meeting ourselves coming back the same way and then many times we disappear up our own a**!!

Just pondering on what 'illogical contortion' would do to help!!! Hmmmmmmmmm


Keep puffing Mont!!...You've got your Persian slipper handy I hope! (!!)



Suz x

[Suzi]

Come in Glenn!

[anna]

Very interesting!.....

That was worth waiting for Monty.


Suzi....Soooo..velvet's got a seriously cunning past,then!!! x

[Jeff Leahy]

I'm not so sure she would meet too many kosher sailors on a pleasure steamer, Jeff - personally, I doubt that Stride went within 200 yards of the Alice. Her story about losing her family when it sank was demonstrably concocted.

This possible link between velvet, sailors and the sailor-friendly district of St George's East intrigues me, however.

No but you can always earn sixpence at the docks..I'm sure I've come across a lagit article conecting Stride to the Princess Alice.

Pirate

Anyway peeps this may be my last post for some time. I got the call tonight the weather is, at last, good and somehow I've been talked into Paragliding tomorrow at Devils Dyke, so its my first UP ...yes I'm bricking it..just hope I have enough Gaffer tape and film stock....

Crack of dawn tomorrow..bye peeps, nice knowing ya

[Jeff Leahy]

Just a quick post to let you know I'm back on the ground

The most awsome experience of my life..it really is like flying...

I was up for an hour, thermals so good that my pilot wanted to head for Dover..I chickened out...glad to be back on terror-therma.

Still got some great footage..sorry if off topic but the adrenalin is still pumping.

Pirate

[Pippin Joan]

Jack The Skipper?

Whose book was it that tried to pursue the sailor as the Ripper idea? I remember reading that it was a possibility that with so many sailors coming and going all the time, a homicidal type might have a fun shore leave and sail away. Come back in a month, and see if some poor wretch he gave a piece of velvet to is willing to go into a back alley with him. Unfortunately, the shipping records are scarce to non-existent, so we can see if certain ships were always at the dock on the right weekends and who was on board. It does give some weight to the claims of some that Ripper-style murders occurred in other countries.

[The Grave Maurice]

Whose book was it that tried to pursue the sailor as the Ripper idea?

Recently, it was Trevor Marriott in his JtR: the 21st Century Investigation. In the first edition, he said it was a sailor; in the second edition, he specifically named Carl Feigenbaum as the culprit.

[diana]

If Stride and Eddowes were killed by the same hand, then the following information copied from the Casebook witnesses section becomes interesting.

Aged 30, 5'7", fair complexion, brown moustache, salt-and-pepper coat, red neckerchief, grey peaked cloth cap. Sailor-like.

This is the description Lawende gave of the man he saw with Eddowes.

Schwartz's description of the man he saw with Stride is very similar, although it does not mention a sailor-like appearance.

[Sam Flynn]

Actually, Diana, Schwartz says Broad-shoulders was wearing a dark cap with a peak. Furthermore, this man was wearing a jacket - not a coat.

As to Lawende's describing the man he saw as "sailor-like", it remains unclear to me whether he meant that he had the overall appearance of a sailor, or that the manner in which the neckerchief was worn was reminiscent of that of a sailor, e.g.:

[Hellrider]

I guess you and me might describe a "sailor appearance" different as well, based on what we imagine a sailor to look like