How Long Did the BS Man-Liz Encounter Take?

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Obs,

But what if Jack the Ripper came on the scene just as Stride was about to depart

Then he simultaneously had perfect and lousy timing. Perfect, because Liz was still there, presumably dusting herself off - just at the moment he arrived, as if from nowhere. Lousy, because Diemschutz was probably a couple of tens of seconds away when Liz's throat was cut. It's such a very contrived, not to say unlikely, series of events that it baffles me why the "interruption" theory still holds strong after all this time.

[Observer]

Hi Fisheman

Yes, Sam and String; there is every reason to believe that Liz would have left the stage if BS man gave her the opportunity to by retracting himself. Very much agreed. She would have been upset and in need to improve on her apparition.

All the best,
Fisherman

But what if Jack the Ripper came on the scene just as Stride was about to depart, he could even have witnessed the scene farther up or down the street? He was known to parly with his victims, he was observed talking with Kate Eddowes shortly before they entered Mitre Square, how long had they been there talking before Lawende and company arrived on the scene? By the time he talked Stride into Dutfields Yard, Deimshutz was on his way down Berner Street, thus he had only time to cut Liz Strides throat.

all the best

Observer

[Sam Flynn]

Yes, but what if she was waiting for someone?

I guess she'd have chosen a better-lit, and less obscure, spot for the rendezvous in the first place, CD. Besides, date or no date, I'd still have been inclined to move to a safer location after being roughed-up and thrown onto a dirty pavement. I might even have knocked the door and asked Mrs Diemschutz for a loan of a clothes-brush to get the muck off before my putative lover-boy arrived.

[Ben]

I do find the casual dismissal of the broad-shouldered man as Stride's killer very difficult to fathom. The first doctor on the scene estimated Stride's time of death at between 12:46 and 12:56, and an independent witness observed the victim being attacked at the time.

I wonder what the simplest explanation is?

Schwartz may have fabricated the entire thing for all know, but if he didn't and was accurate in his assessment of the time, the man he saw is by far - by far - the person most likely to have killed Elizabeth Stride.

Best regards,
Ben

[c.d.]

Fish, String - indeed so. My instinct would have been to leave the yard for somewhere better-lit. I might even have chased after the bugger who jostled me. I certainly wouldn't have lingered for any length of time in the same gloomy place where I'd just been assaulted.

Hi Sam,

Yes, but what if she was waiting for someone?

c.d.

[Stephen Thomas]

With what we've got on record, I would say that five minutes is an eternity.

Hi Fisherman

Well as some wise person once said, if you put your hand on a hot stove for a minute it seems like an hour and if a man talks to a beautiful woman for an hour it seems to him like a minute. My own thoughts on Mr BS is that he was just some geezer staggering home from the pub on a Saturday night who was up for a bit of prostitutute bashing and racial insults, and after that he just kept on walking home. I could be wrong though. Of course. What happened to the to the creepy clerk-like person that Liz had been hanging around with for the last few hours? That's what I'd like to know.

[Sam Flynn]

Fish, String - indeed so. My instinct would have been to leave the yard for somewhere better-lit. I might even have chased after the bugger who jostled me. I certainly wouldn't have lingered for any length of time in the same gloomy place where I'd just been assaulted.

[Fisherman]

Yes, Sam and String; there is every reason to believe that Liz would have left the stage if BS man gave her the opportunity to by retracting himself. Very much agreed. She would have been upset and in need to improve on her apparition.

All the best,
Fisherman

[String]

I was thinking would Stride not have vacated the area in case BS man came back? Even just to move to another location.
So if Jack did kill Stride and not the BS man he must have been quick.

[Sam Flynn]

if B S man left the scene after having thrown Liz to the ground, there would be ample time for Jack to get on stage.

...or, indeed, for Liz to leave it.

[Fisherman]

Hi c.d!

With what wew´e got on record, I would say that five minutes is an eternity. I believe that the encounter, as witnessed by Schwartz, took much shorter time. So if B S man left the scene after having thrown Liz to the ground, there would be ample time for Jack to get on stage.
Then again, I don´t think he ever did so. I believe that the unwitnessed part of the BS man/Liz encounter was a more lengthy one than the part outside the gates.

The best,
Fisherman

[Suzi]

To be honest Sam- Who knows what Liz was thinking about at that time- she had her cachous (Where from we don't know...maybe from Polly's Bonnet man etc etc ) - had had a nice night in the pub,with a cuddle- and was waiting for shall we say a) a quick (!) customer or b) a duff up by her usual squeeze- better to have a black eye I guess!!Hmm

[Sam Flynn]

You make a good point, Sam but the Ripper would not necessarily have to show up within seconds of the BS man vacating the scene

True, CD... but then, Stride would have to have stayed put for longer until "yer man" showed up.

[Suzi]

An interesting point here- BS could easily have done some form of 'domestic damage' to Liz and disappeared into the pub or scuttled up or down the road before the S/Pipe 'observations'..

Can't help but think that our Liz wasn't a stranger to being thrown to the floor though!!

Suz x

[c.d.]

Hi CDBS could have thrown Liz to the ground, given her a piece of his mind (or whatever), and left within 5 minutes, easily. He may even have scarpered within a minute of the Schwartz/Pipeman debacle for that matter. The problem is that, the shorter the time BS took, the longer a separate "Ripper" could have had with Liz at his mercy. This doesn't bode well if one wishes to explain away the lack of mutilation in terms of time-pressure on the killer.

You make a good point, Sam but the Ripper would not necessarily have to show up within seconds of the BS man vacating the scene.

c.d.