An INCREDIBLY fanciful idea about Stride murder

[Charles Daniels]

The known data from the Stride investigation suggests that Liz was unaware she was in danger until the moment she had her scarf grabbed and tightened, and it also suggests she may have been cut before she hits the ground.

Been thinking about that element of it -- the scarf grabbing and tightening, and wondering if the killer was hoping to slow the flow of blood -- make it less messy a scene. Of course it could be just a crazed attack on the throat area. Just kicking around ideas in my head on it.

All the evidence suggests she was in the passageway when her attacker Blitz Krieged her, why she was there is not indicated within the known data. Its unlikely it was to solicit a club for customers that had an hour earlier let almost all of its occupants out. It was deserted on the street.

If it wasn't a good place to look for clients, because it was deserted on the street, was it a good place to BRING clients?

The Pall Mall Gazette description of the general area makes me think it may well have been.

[Charles Daniels]

Heres an idea that Ive floated here with little traction gained, but I believe it makes more sense than many guesses and it uses the evidence...Kates killer was aware that Socialist Jews were denying anything to do with Liz's murder and trying to pass the blame on the "mad" killer at large....."another woman has been killed" was yelled by the club members. It ticked him off...maybe an anti Semite, so he decides to drop the apron carrying the organs from Mitre Square right outside a major concentration of Jewish Immigrants at the Model Homes and writes a message suggesting the Jews will not accept blame for anything.

Bit puzzled here. The time between these two murders at these two different locations is fairly tight.

I would think that in order for Kates killer to hear "another woman has been killed" he'd have to have been pretty near or even AT the Liz's murder site, pretty much when it happened.

[Charles Daniels]

thanks Charles
you could very well be right. I just see it the other way. it all ties together.
the reluctance of Stride, pissed off broad shouldered man, being spotted by jews, the peaked cap, the wording of the GSG.etc.

I think what weights against it for me is -- if you are in Whitechapel in 1888 with a large Jewish population, you can expect some probability that eye witnesses will be Jewish and that there will be racist graffiti in that same area.

For example, I could easily imagine, in my 21st century corner of Britain, that a suspect might be witnessed by several people of Middle Eastern descent, and dump some evidence on that same street, and it just happen to be next to some racist scrawl against Muslims.
But it having nothing to do with the criminal's own views or motivations.

Part of me is left to wonder, if the killer had walked down the next street over, might we all be sitting here wondering why the killer may have written "For a good time be here at 12 and ask for Emma."

But I simply can't know if it's related or not, so I put it in my grey basket, because I have to accept the police were concerned -- but I have my own theories about why that is and they are fairly mundane.

[Michael W Richards]

Bit puzzled here. The time between these two murders at these two different locations is fairly tight.

I would think that in order for Kates killer to hear "another woman has been killed" he'd have to have been pretty near or even AT the Liz's murder site, pretty much when it happened.

Actually Charles a crowd had gathered around the body before the police had even arrived and some of them likely went off in different directions talking about what they had seen before they closed the gates and interviewed the club members. I think that the possibility of bumping into someone talking about the Berner Murder wouldn't be that difficult if in the area...and there is no evidence that precludes Kates killer from living somewhere near there.

[drstrange169]

As this snippet from the Daily News demonstrates, news of Mrs Stride's murder spread rapidly.

"On the opposite side of the way, on the pavement in front of the Board School, a knot of young women gathered, and raised the cry-"Is it Molly? Can it be Molly?" Those who witnessed this scene say that the woman appeared to belong to the unfortunate class, and add that in a few minutes they had disappeared, apparently having satisfied themselves that the victim was not their companion."

[Charles Daniels]

Actually Charles a crowd had gathered around the body before the police had even arrived and some of them likely went off in different directions talking about what they had seen before they closed the gates and interviewed the club members. I think that the possibility of bumping into someone talking about the Berner Murder wouldn't be that difficult if in the area...and there is no evidence that precludes Kates killer from living somewhere near there.

Okay, but for the theory to work -- the killer has to be within walking distance of a throat slash murder (so someone could pass by him and he could hear the news) and then think something along the lines of "Oh, I should do one of those tonight myself!" and then quickly make his way toward Mitre Square.

It's not impossible of course, the East End isn't really that big an area.
But the timings and locations allow me to have one killer quite easily, so I'm reluctant to entertain two until something truly forces my hand.

[drstrange169]

Hello Charles,

Given prostitutes gathered at St Botolphs Church and it's close proximity to Mitre Sq. It would be hard for anyone to quickly find a willing woman.

The scenario is not to far-fetched, but I agree unlikely.

[Michael W Richards]

Okay, but for the theory to work -- the killer has to be within walking distance of a throat slash murder (so someone could pass by him and he could hear the news) and then think something along the lines of "Oh, I should do one of those tonight myself!" and then quickly make his way toward Mitre Square.

It's not impossible of course, the East End isn't really that big an area.
But the timings and locations allow me to have one killer quite easily, so I'm reluctant to entertain two until something truly forces my hand.

The thing is Charles that the killer in Mitre Square may have had up to 70 minutes between leaving Mitre Square and leaving the cloth at Goulston. Plenty of time to hear about the goings on in Berner Street...if the Mitre killer lived in the East End.

The fact that 3 women had their throats slit on that night should indicate to anyone that it is possible that 3 men were involved. We know that 1 man did one murder, ergo, it is not a given that 1 man did the remaining 2 slit throats simply because that was the number recorded that night.

There is no evidence that Liz Strides murder had anything to do with mutilation, and tons of evidence that Polly and Annies murders....a month earlier...were committed so as to facilitate pm mutilation. There is medical opinion that Stride was not killed like previous victims, and the same physician saw differences in the skill exhibited in those first 2 killings with Kate Eddowes injuries. That physician saw more Canonicals in death than anyone.

Summary....there is at this point in time no evidence that compels anyone to assume that the same person who killed Polly and Annie also killed Liz, or Kate.

If the message in the GSG was anti-Semitic, as the authorities who ordered it erasure were convinced of, then its remains within reason that whomever wrote it knew that location was almost exclusively Jewish...and perhaps housed members or family of members of the International Club.