Piece of Apron and the 'Juwes'

[Glenn Lauritz Andersson]

No doubt, Sam. No doubt.

All the best

[Graham]

Hi Graham,

Well although the last point regarding Miller's Court 13 could be explained by the fact that the Ripper might not have been the murderer at that site (you probably know my view on this), I perfectly agree with you regarding the GSG. Because that is probably what it was: a graffitti - nothing more, nothing less, which happened to be connected with the murders due to the placing of the apron.

All the best

Hi Glenn.

Long time since we crossed tracks.

Like you, I've never been totally convinced that he who killed MJK is the same as he who killed the others.

Since my last post, I've been looking at a website in which the graffiti of Belfast was featured, and it seems that in that city just about every available square foot of wall is (or was) covered in political graffiti. Some of it is easily understood (like "**** England"); some of it is more obscure but obviously meaning something to whoever wrote it and to whoever reads it.
The East End of around 1888 was a similar political hot-bed, and then as now the easiest way of putting across one's political point is to chalk it up on a wall for all to see. I would suggest that whoever wrote the GSG (whatever it might have meant) chose the place carefully where it would be seen by everyone who lived in the Model Dwellings - they were nearly all Jewish, and would see it as they passed in and out of the place. Presumably it meant more to them in 1888 than it does to us in 2008. But written by Jack the Ripper? - no way.

Best regards,

Graham

[Graham]

I can't help feeling that, if Jack had dropped the apron further down the street, we'd be disputing the meaning of "Jacob's crackers" or "Free Aire".

Or, in more recent times, "Clapton is God".

Cheers,

Graham

[Cap'n Jack]

'As I said, it is possible that the author of the message fully believed(at the time of writing) that the message would be understandable to those who read it.'

Nicely done, Observer, that is my own view.

[Roy Corduroy]

Gentlemen,

Insp. James McWilliam wrote that "Lawley and Hunt informed me of the finding of the apron & the writing on the wall, the latter of which I ordered to be photographed and directed the Officers to return at once & seach the "Model" dwellings & lodging houses in the neighbourhood."

Because it was important. No other statement by any policeman or official or anything we say today changes that.

Roy

(underlne mine)

[Graham]

Gentlemen,

Insp. James McWilliam wrote that "Lawley and Hunt informed me of the finding of the apron & the writing on the wall, the latter of which I ordered to be photographed and directed the Officers to return at once & seach the "Model" dwellings & lodging houses in the neighbourhood."

Because it was important. No other statement by any policeman or official or anything we say today changes that.

Roy

(underlne mine)

Yes? And?

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Nonsense, observer,

Although the combination of the apron and the message would have been kind of explosive, there is no reason why he couldn't have written a message that was much clearer and less ambiguent.
The apron could have worked as an authentication, but it doesn't explain the meaning of the message.

In addition, I stand by my notion that I find the idea that the killer would waste time and unnecessary taking risks by stopping in the entrance, writing an ambigous message in a tidy, neat and very small handwriting as totally ridiculous. It just doesn't make sense.
One can argue whether the Ripper knew about the graffitti from earlier scouts in the area and thus decided to place the apron there or if it was a oure coincidence, but I certainly do not believe for a moment that he wrote it.

All the best

You know Glenn,the Ripper whoever he was was not a very well cookie!If someone isnt quite right in the head they will surely have a rather different take on what is "normal behaviour" than you or me!It may have all made perfect sense to him,from the tiny slits he made over Kate Eddowes eyes to the apron dropped in the doorway, to the message in chalk above the apron-all neat,tidy and terribly bonkers!
Cheers

[joelhall]

You know Glenn,the Ripper whoever he was was not a very well cookie!If someone isnt quite right in the head they will surely have a rather different take on what is "normal behaviour" than you or me!It may have all made perfect sense to him,from the tiny slits he made over Kate Eddowes eyes to the apron dropped in the doorway, to the message in chalk above the apron-all neat,tidy and terribly bonkers!
Cheers

haha

now thats logical best post on this thread by far in my opinion

[Graham]

Hi Nats.

My own theory re: the "Double Event" (if indeed that's what it was...) is that the Ripper came very, very close to being caught in Mitre Square. So close, that he legged it, and legged it as fast as he could go. Doesn't matter if the piece of apron was taken from the scene deliberately or by accident, he was a scared man and he used it to wipe his hands, after which he discarded it in the nearest opportune spot - which just happened to be the entrance to the Model Dwellings. Given that scenario, the Ripper, abnormal or otherwise, would simply not have hung around long enough to chalk up some odd message on the wall. He'd have carried on hot-footing it. It just doesn't make sense that he'd have left a nice little message for posterity.

I also happen to think that the Ripper, whoever he might have been, was to all intents and purposes perfectly 'normal' to those whom he encountered in his everyday, humdrum life. He just had this strange urge to kill a woman every so often...

Cheers,

Graham

[Graham]

haha

now thats logical best post on this thread by far in my opinion

Joel,

I repeat my question from an earlier post: why didn't the Ripper leave similar messages at or near the scenes of his earlier murders?

Cheers,

Graham

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Nats.

My own theory re: the "Double Event" (if indeed that's what it was...) is that the Ripper came very, very close to being caught in Mitre Square. So close, that he legged it, and legged it as fast as he could go. Doesn't matter if the piece of apron was taken from the scene deliberately or by accident, he was a scared man and he used it to wipe his hands, after which he discarded it in the nearest opportune spot - which just happened to be the entrance to the Model Dwellings. Given that scenario, the Ripper, abnormal or otherwise, would simply not have hung around long enough to chalk up some odd message on the wall. He'd have carried on hot-footing it. It just doesn't make sense that he'd have left a nice little message for posterity.

I also happen to think that the Ripper, whoever he might have been, was to all intents and purposes perfectly 'normal' to those whom he encountered in his everyday, humdrum life. He just had this strange urge to kill a woman every so often...

Cheers,

Graham

Well Graham,
some of us go for the ripper as mentally ill and some go for the ripper as you do.I happen to think he was most likely mentally ill,like Cutbush was.
I am not saying it was Cutbush,but he did have a history of violent behaviour,whereas Kosminski,also in an asylum did not.
Incidently,there was a gap of an hour between the murder and the rag being found----so he was in a queer kind of "hurry"!
Cheers
Norma

Joe
Thanks!

[Sam Flynn]

Well Graham,
some of us go for the ripper as mentally ill and some go for the ripper as you do.

In fairness, I thought Graham was describing a mentally ill person, Nats.

Many serial killers haven't been "raving loonies" by any stretch of the imagination. "Joe Average", most of 'em.

[joelhall]

Well Graham,
some of us go for the ripper as mentally ill and some go for the ripper as you do.I happen to think he was most likely mentally ill,like Cutbush was.
I am not saying it was Cutbush,but he did have a history of violent behaviour,whereas Kosminski,also in an asylum did not.
Incidently,there was a gap of an hour between the murder and the rag being found----so he was in a queer kind of "hurry"!
Cheers
Norma

Joe
Thanks!

what about kaminsky/cohen... seems more plausible to me than kosminsky?

[Natalie Severn]

what about kaminsky/cohen... seems more plausible to me than kosminsky?

Definitely Joe,but in order to get David Cohen in the frame,you have to make a lot of it up as you go along-----

[Natalie Severn]

In fairness, I thought Graham was describing a mentally ill person, Nats.

Many serial killers haven't been "raving loonies" by any stretch of the imagination. "Joe Average", most of 'em.

Yes but Graham was also referring to Bundy ,like you were,Sam,and I dont see the Ripper and Bundy were after the same things at all.
I tend to think the Ripper was "hearing voices" commanding him to do what he did.
Best
Norma