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  • The Curse

    The murder of Catherine Eddowes, being part of the 'double event' with the subsequent Ripper letters and the kidney sent, was the virtual height of the big series of events that grabbed the attention of London and the world. The crime scene became very famous too, and a sensational story The Curse Upon Mitre Square was written at the time, which tied into the history of the square as the former Holy Trinity Priory, Aldgate.

    Thinking about officer Amos Simpson, who was based in N Division (Islington) of the Metropolitan Police, not the City of London, where Mitre Square is, I can see how a family story may have developed. He brought home an item, and it became, in the telling the "Eddowes Shawl." This is not something officer Simpson told his mates on the force, or the public, but it was a family tradition. Not an unreasonable idea in the scheme of human history.

    Because there really is no explanation for Simpson being there, nor this item having any connection to Catherine Eddowes, much less any suspect at all. The "shawl' and its story is an example of human nature at work, in the telling of a family story set against these famous events. An item which one day appeared in a shop.

    Roy
    Last edited by Roy Corduroy; 09-10-2014, 09:13 PM.
    Sink the Bismark

  • #2
    Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
    The murder of Catherine Eddowes, being part of the 'double event' with the subsequent Ripper letters and the kidney sent, was the virtual height of the big series of events that grabbed the attention of London and the world. The crime scene became very famous too, and a sensational story The Curse of Mitre Square was written at the time, which tied into the history of the square as the former Holy Trinity Priory, Aldgate.

    Thinking about officer Amos Simpson, who was based in N Division (Islington) of the Metropolitan Police, not the City of London, where Mitre Square is, I can see how a family story may have developed. He brought home an item, and it became, in the telling the "Eddowes Shawl." This is not something officer Simpson told his mates on the force, or the public, but it was a family tradition. Not an unreasonable idea in the scheme of human history.

    Because there really is no explanation for Simpson being there, nor this item having any connection to Catherine Eddowes, much less any suspect at all. The "shawl' and its story is an example of human nature at work, in the telling of a family story set against these famous events. An item which one day appeared in a shop.

    Roy
    G'day Roy

    Not unreasonable.

    I also suggested at one stage that at some time he said to someone in the family something like:

    "That Table Runner [shawl] is the same [pattern] as the dress Jack's victim was wearing".

    It's not hard to see how over a couple of tellings could be distorted.
    G U T

    There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

    Comment


    • #3
      my family

      Hi ,my family on my dad's side all originate from the east end my dad was born in the 1930s right next door to Whitechapel his grandparents lived in Whitechapel during the autumn of terror .It amazes me the amount of my descendents who saw a gentleman wearing a cloak a top hat and carrying a Gladstone bag (but wasn't carrying a shawl or table runner)every night when there was a murder but didn't think to mention untill years later.Every one who lived or worked in the east end at the time had a Jack the ripper story and that's what the vast majority of them are stories some might be true or they might have been copied from other people's stories
      Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

      Comment


      • #4
        Agree.There must probably be hundreds of stories that came down from people who lived in
        whitechapel at that time, police or merchant or shopkeeper or porters etc.
        being no different from one another,and one would believe in every story told without
        corroboration and record of any kind? Let's also not forget there were lots of
        false witnesses and liars during that killing period.Even let's say Hutchinson,he said
        he saw the Astrakhan man,and that's it it's true?
        The only way it can be further gauged is if the story bearer was/is interviewed
        and maybe sensed if he is/was telling the truth and maybe further investigate other
        things he had to say. Obviously Amos is dead and it won't happen. The story of Edward's
        shawl is basically dead on arrival.

        About the mtDNA it covers thousands of people. If the test were done for several people
        from several families then it would make may you wonder. If not not.
        It could have came from families who did not know each other. It's an approximation and
        could be innacurate.
        Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced, otherwise people run back to the hills,no towns).
        M. Pacana

        Comment


        • #5
          You can argue that the double event was the "height" of the Ripper scare. But it's also very important to remember that at the time, Eddowes was not considered the 4th in a series, she was considered the 6th. The Nichols, and even moreso the Chapman murder, sent London into a full on panic. Nichols was not considered the first dead prostitute, she was considered the 3rd after Smith and Tabram. Only later were Smith and Tabram excluded from the list of canonical victims. What I am meaning, at the time of Eddowes murder, London was already in a panic.

          What you were saying could very well ring true. At the same time, if he were going to make up a story for the fabric, he would've had no more reason to say it came from Eddowes as to say it came from Chapman or Kelly. In fact, considering that Kelly was killed in her own private lodging, it actually could be seen as MORE BELIEVABLE to say he got the fabric from Kelly's room.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
            The murder of Catherine Eddowes, being part of the 'double event' with the subsequent Ripper letters and the kidney sent, was the virtual height of the big series of events that grabbed the attention of London and the world. The crime scene became very famous too, and a sensational story The Curse Upon Mitre Square was written at the time, which tied into the history of the square as the former Holy Trinity Priory, Aldgate.

            Thinking about officer Amos Simpson, who was based in N Division (Islington) of the Metropolitan Police, not the City of London, where Mitre Square is, I can see how a family story may have developed. He brought home an item, and it became, in the telling the "Eddowes Shawl." This is not something officer Simpson told his mates on the force, or the public, but it was a family tradition. Not an unreasonable idea in the scheme of human history.

            Because there really is no explanation for Simpson being there, nor this item having any connection to Catherine Eddowes, much less any suspect at all. The "shawl' and its story is an example of human nature at work, in the telling of a family story set against these famous events. An item which one day appeared in a shop.

            Roy
            I'm not familiar with the area, but I read somewhere that Mitre Square borders the division where Simpson was affected.

            Is there any truth in those allegations?
            Is it progress when a cannibal uses a fork?
            - Stanislaw Jerzy Lee

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SirJohnFalstaff View Post
              I'm not familiar with the area, but I read somewhere that Mitre Square borders the division where Simpson was affected.

              Is there any truth in those allegations?
              Simple answer:No unless you call something close to a mile away "bordering".
              G U T

              There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SirJohnFalstaff View Post
                I'm not familiar with the area, but I read somewhere that Mitre Square borders the division where Simpson was affected.
                Is there any truth in those allegations?
                Click image for larger version

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                SirJohn, Mitre Square is at the star, within the City of London. Metropolitan Police Division N was Amos Simpson's posting. The other Whitechapel murders were in H.

                N Division extended miles northward. Here is the entire map (click) courtesy of Colin Roberts.

                Roy
                Sink the Bismark

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
                  [ATTACH]16224[/ATTACH]

                  SirJohn, Mitre Square is at the star, within the City of London. Metropolitan Police Division N was Amos Simpson's posting. The other Whitechapel murders were in H.

                  N Division extended miles northward. Here is the entire map (click) courtesy of Colin Roberts.

                  Roy
                  Thanks for the Map Roy.
                  G U T

                  There are two ways to be fooled, one is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe that which is true.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Pash´s Reliable Boots

                    Just found a photograph of Pash´s in Maidstone where Kate and Kelly bought boots and possibly Kate´s jacket. I have written to them to ask permission to publish it as it is not possible to buy a copy just now. Fingers crossed. Unless it has already been put up by someone.

                    Best wishes
                    C4

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi Curious4,

                      As I recall, Kelly bought his boots from Arthur Pash, "London Boot Stores, 5 Maidstone High Street," whilst Eddowes bought her jacket from George Edmett & Co, pawnbrokers, Rose Yard [just off Maidstone High Street].

                      Regards,

                      Simon

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Reliable boots

                        Hello Simon

                        According to the photograph the shop was called Pash´s Reliable Boots, but I remember it as a draper´s. It was a long time ago though and I was only a small child.

                        My memory isn´t altogether at fault because it is exactly where I remember it.

                        Will see if they allow me to publish it.

                        Best wishes
                        C4

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Varqm View Post
                          Agree.There must probably be hundreds of stories that came down from people who lived in
                          whitechapel at that time, police or merchant or shopkeeper or porters etc.
                          being no different from one another,and one would believe in every story told without
                          corroboration and record of any kind? Let's also not forget there were lots of
                          false witnesses and liars during that killing period.Even let's say Hutchinson,he said
                          he saw the Astrakhan man,and that's it it's true?
                          The only way it can be further gauged is if the story bearer was/is interviewed
                          and maybe sensed if he is/was telling the truth and maybe further investigate other
                          things he had to say. Obviously Amos is dead and it won't happen. The story of Edward's
                          shawl is basically dead on arrival.

                          About the mtDNA it covers thousands of people. If the test were done for several people
                          from several families then it would make may you wonder. If not not.
                          It could have came from families who did not know each other. It's an approximation and
                          could be innacurate.
                          A lot of stories passed some a few would be true but the true ones drown in the sea of falsehoods.I have always believed (I have absolutely no proof but I might write a book anyway)that some one saw our killer shortly before after or even during his work but never came forward.
                          Three things in life that don't stay hidden for to long ones the sun ones the moon and the other is the truth

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Catherine Eddowes was murdered in Mitre Square and I thought, what structures from 1888 in the vicinity are still standing.

                            St Katharine Cree, one of seven surviving medieval churches in London

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                            Aldgate Pump

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                            Bevis Marks, the only synagogue in Europe which has held regular services continuously for over 300 years.

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                            Tea warehouse on Creechurch Lane

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                            St Botolph without Aldgate

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                            Sink the Bismark

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The view today across Mitre Square looking towards Mitre Street. A new office tower is being built.

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                              Last edited by Roy Corduroy; 10-14-2014, 08:40 PM.
                              Sink the Bismark

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