Did Lawende see Kate Eddowes?

[Damaso Marte]

There is the time the body is found to deal with, approx 1:43-:44....leaving a very short period of time from 1:35 to lure into the square, kill, mutilate, excise and create a carry out sack from the victims clothing. There is the fact that within 2 weeks of his statement he acknowledged he likely couldnt identify the suspect he saw with the woman. And the fact that he never really got a good look at Kates face....and clothing at 1:30 in the morning in dim lighting almost always will appear as black.

Regardless of who Lawende saw, the killer had a very short amount of time to do his work in Mitre Square. Even if we ignore the Lawende sighting, his time in the square is circumscribed by police beats.

[Jenni Shelden]

Hi Wickerman,
no I don't think it would.

Am I right thinking that the other two men were even less sure?

Jenni

[Wickerman]

Neither McWilliam nor Swanson were over enthused about Lawende's statement. That he could not identify the man again, nor identify the victim at the mortuary. Only her clothes appeared similar.
It wouldn't be wise to place more faith in Lawende than the police officials at the time.

[Michael W Richards]

Hello all,

It has been widely accepted that J. Lawende...and 2 friends, saw Kate Eddowes outside Mitre Square in the company of "Sailor Man" at approx 1:35am. It is also accepted that the Police sequestered Lawende and suppressed his testimony at the Inquest, thereby proving that at least the contemporary City Police believed his statement had value to their investigation. We also assume that Lawende, or Schwartz, was the witness used in later line-up ID's arranged by the police, and the alleged ID at the Seaside Home.

All this seems to make Mr Lawende a very important if not THE most important witness in the "Ripper" related cases, not just the Mitre Square murder.

But how likely is it that he did see Kate at all?

There is the time the body is found to deal with, approx 1:43-:44....leaving a very short period of time from 1:35 to lure into the square, kill, mutilate, excise and create a carry out sack from the victims clothing. There is the fact that within 2 weeks of his statement he acknowledged he likely couldnt identify the suspect he saw with the woman. And the fact that he never really got a good look at Kates face....and clothing at 1:30 in the morning in dim lighting almost always will appear as black.

We have contemporary opinion voiced that suggested the police were surprised at the lack of blood on Kate or at the scene, and that she may have been brought to that location already murdered.

We know the woman released from Bishopsgate as Jane Kelly of Fashion Street was actually Kate Eddowes, and we know the body found in the square was also identified as the same Ms Eddowes.

Do we know that the couple Lawende saw included Kate?

Best regards