From Mitre Square to Goulston Street - Some thoughts.

[Curious Cat]

What was PC Long's beat and how long would it have taken him to do a circuit?

[Monty]

Night duty beats were 15 mins long. Day 30 mins.

However some night beats were 30 mins.

It was dependant on the beat and the duties to be executed on it (building checks for example).

Monty

[DJA]

What was PC Long's beat and how long would it have taken him to do a circuit?

Constable Alfred Long, 254 A, Metropolitan police: I was on duty in Goulston-street, Whitechapel, on Sunday morning, Sept. 30, and about five minutes to three o'clock I found a portion of a white apron (produced). There were recent stains of blood on it. The apron was lying in the passage leading to the staircase of Nos. 106 to 119, a model dwelling-house. Above on the wall was written in chalk, "The Jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing." I at once searched the staircase and areas of the building, but did not find anything else. I took the apron to Commercial-road Police-station and reported to the inspector on duty.
[Coroner] Had you been past that spot previously to your discovering the apron? - I passed about twenty minutes past two o'clock.
[Coroner] Are you able to say whether the apron was there then? - It was not.

[Curious Cat]

Constable Alfred Long, 254 A, Metropolitan police: I was on duty in Goulston-street, Whitechapel, on Sunday morning, Sept. 30, and about five minutes to three o'clock I found a portion of a white apron (produced). There were recent stains of blood on it. The apron was lying in the passage leading to the staircase of Nos. 106 to 119, a model dwelling-house. Above on the wall was written in chalk, "The Jews are the men that will not be blamed for nothing." I at once searched the staircase and areas of the building, but did not find anything else. I took the apron to Commercial-road Police-station and reported to the inspector on duty.
[Coroner] Had you been past that spot previously to your discovering the apron? - I passed about twenty minutes past two o'clock.
[Coroner] Are you able to say whether the apron was there then? - It was not.

Yes, that's the time he says he was last at the location before spotting the apron piece, but do we know which direction he was walking or whether each circuit would have reasonably taken 35 minutes?

PC Watkins's and PC Harvey's beats were both anti-clockwise, with a circuit being about 14 and 18 minutes respectively. 35 minutes seems quite a long circuit time. What would his route have been to take him that long to complete at a circuit at a reasonable beat pace? Because not only does PC Long apparently miss seeing the killer in Goulston Street, but he also misses seeing DC Halse at a time they both say they were there.

[jerryd]

Yes, that's the time he says he was last at the location before spotting the apron piece, but do we know which direction he was walking or whether each circuit would have reasonably taken 35 minutes?

PC Watkins's and PC Harvey's beats were both anti-clockwise, with a circuit being about 14 and 18 minutes respectively. 35 minutes seems quite a long circuit time. What would his route have been to take him that long to complete at a circuit at a reasonable beat pace? Because not only does PC Long apparently miss seeing the killer in Goulston Street, but he also misses seeing DC Halse at a time they both say they were there.

Hi Curious Cat.

In July of 1889, PC Walter Andrews was on the beat that covered Goulston Street (Beat #11, 4th Section). The beat was split in two that night due to a heightened alert. Andrews had the western half of the beat and PC Joseph Allen the eastern half. From the statement of Andrews we see he covered Goulston Street.

After leaving the alley I went halfway to Goulston Street. (Andrews is walking west on Wentworth at this point) and then down the other side (bottom or south side of Wentworth), returning into Old Castle Street and through into Castle Alley. At 25 past 12 I passed from the alley into New Castle Street, up one side of the High street, Whitechapel and into Goulston Street, returning into Whitechapel High Street. Then I went into Middlesex Street, into Wentworth Street again, when I saw Sgt Badham as I stated at the commencement of my evidence. This would have taken 27 minutes.

*(Additions in parentheses are mine)

The Goulston Street part is a bit unclear from his testimony, but it looks like he MAY have gone from Whitechapel High Street into Goulston Street up to Wentworth Street and back down Goulston Street to Whitechapel High Street again. That's what I gather. Why would he enter Goulston Street and then immediately go back to Whitechapel High? He didn't get quite to Goulston Street from the Wentworth Street side the first time. Only halfway. So, it might make sense he covered the whole of Goulston Street from the south side. The question is, was this beat altered after 1888? It could have been, but it gives us an idea of where PC. Long was travelling.

[Curious Cat]

Hi Curious Cat.

In July of 1889, PC Walter Andrews was on the beat that covered Goulston Street (Beat #11, 4th Section). The beat was split in two that night due to a heightened alert. Andrews had the western half of the beat and PC Joseph Allen the eastern half. From the statement of Andrews we see he covered Goulston Street.

After leaving the alley I went halfway to Goulston Street. (Andrews is walking west on Wentworth at this point) and then down the other side (bottom or south side of Wentworth), returning into Old Castle Street and through into Castle Alley. At 25 past 12 I passed from the alley into New Castle Street, up one side of the High street, Whitechapel and into Goulston Street, returning into Whitechapel High Street. Then I went into Middlesex Street, into Wentworth Street again, when I saw Sgt Badham as I stated at the commencement of my evidence. This would have taken 27 minutes.

*(Additions in parentheses are mine)

The Goulston Street part is a bit unclear from his testimony, but it looks like he MAY have gone from Whitechapel High Street into Goulston Street up to Wentworth Street and back down Goulston Street to Whitechapel High Street again. That's what I gather. Why would he enter Goulston Street and then immediately go back to Whitechapel High? He didn't get quite to Goulston Street from the Wentworth Street side the first time. Only halfway. So, it might make sense he covered the whole of Goulston Street from the south side. The question is, was this beat altered after 1888? It could have been, but it gives us an idea of where PC. Long was travelling.

Have been looking at a map of the area as it looked at the time and must admit I am struggling to make a coherent circuit. Old Castle Street into Castle Alley then round New Castle Street I can see, but does that mean he triples Castle Alley before reaching the High Street to get to Goulston Street? In that he goes into Castle Alley, comes back up to go into New Castle Street and then goes through Castle Alley again to get to the one side (north side) of Whitechapel High Street to travel west to Goulston Street. The next bit from there to Middlesex Street I get but after reaching the west end of Wentworth Street I can't quite see where it connects to start over again.

Which alley is being referred to at the beginning? There's Goulston Alley and 3 Tun Alley to the south of Wentworth Street but maybe he means another one.

If this is the same beat PC Long took then he would have been walking north up Goulston Street, towards Wentworth Street, when he found the apron piece. The same direction, of course, when he last passed the doorway and it apparently wasn't there. But it would mean he technically passed that doorway at least 3 times as after 2:20am he would have been walking back down Goulston Street albeit on the other side. PC Long's continued presence in that area would have been between around 2:20am and 2:25am until he returned at about 2:55am.

Either way, there still appears to be an additional 8 minutes to PC Long's beat compared to PC Andrews's one a few months later so maybe PC Long had an even more higgledy-piggledy route. Or being new to the area had got lost a few times. Both being the case feels plausible.

[jerryd]

Have been looking at a map of the area as it looked at the time and must admit I am struggling to make a coherent circuit. Old Castle Street into Castle Alley then round New Castle Street I can see, but does that mean he triples Castle Alley before reaching the High Street to get to Goulston Street? In that he goes into Castle Alley, comes back up to go into New Castle Street and then goes through Castle Alley again to get to the one side (north side) of Whitechapel High Street to travel west to Goulston Street. The next bit from there to Middlesex Street I get but after reaching the west end of Wentworth Street I can't quite see where it connects to start over again.

Disregard the yellow line. That is the route Isaac Jacobs was on in 1889 from his house.

The blue arrow is an alley by the Three Crowns Pub that leads to New Castle Street. From there he (Andrews) travels south to Whitechapel High Street and then west to Goulston Street. Joseph Allen would have had the and eastern parts of the beat in 1889.

[Curious Cat]

Disregard the yellow line. That is the route Isaac Jacobs was on in 1889 from his house.

The blue arrow is an alley by the Three Crowns Pub that leads to New Castle Street. From there he (Andrews) travels south to Whitechapel High Street and then west to Goulston Street. Joseph Allen would have had the and eastern parts of the beat in 1889.

So would PC Andrews have gone south from the alley and missed the whole section of New Castle Street to the east and north? Would that section have been covered by PC Allen?

As PC Long was not only new to that particular beat but new to the area in general, if he was doing that New Castle Street loop alone then it's easy to see how he might have got a bit lost or going slower to familiarise himself with the route.


PC 190H takes over the beat from PC Long after he goes to the station with the apron piece. But was PC 190H due to take over at that point anyway or was he dispatched to take over when PC Long arrived at the station in Commercial Road?

[jerryd]

So would PC Andrews have gone south from the alley and missed the whole section of New Castle Street to the east and north? Would that section have been covered by PC Allen?

As PC Long was not only new to that particular beat but new to the area in general, if he was doing that New Castle Street loop alone then it's easy to see how he might have got a bit lost or going slower to familiarise himself with the route.


PC 190H takes over the beat from PC Long after he goes to the station with the apron piece. But was PC 190H due to take over at that point anyway or was he dispatched to take over when PC Long arrived at the station in Commercial Road?

My take on it is that PC Allen had that part of the beat. I might add that there are some questions I've had about PC Andrews testimony. The bottom line is, it is hard to compare the two nights due to the circumstances going on in the 1889 case. The testimony from PC Andrews gives us a basic idea of the route is all I meant.

As far as PC 190H (Willie Bettles). I have guessed he was on the northern beat which covered the Bell Lane area which butts up to the Goulston Street end where PC Long found the apron. I know Bettles had been on a beat in Dorset Street, April 1888. If that Dorset Street beat covered Bell Lane also then it would make sense Bettles may have been just north as Long left for the station.

[Curious Cat]

My take on it is that PC Allen had that part of the beat. I might add that there are some questions I've had about PC Andrews testimony. The bottom line is, it is hard to compare the two nights due to the circumstances going on in the 1889 case. The testimony from PC Andrews gives us a basic idea of the route is all I meant.

As far as PC 190H (Willie Bettles). I have guessed he was on the northern beat which covered the Bell Lane area which butts up to the Goulston Street end where PC Long found the apron. I know Bettles had been on a beat in Dorset Street, April 1888. If that Dorset Street beat covered Bell Lane also then it would make sense Bettles may have been just north as Long left for the station.

Well that's quite interesting but for another reason.

If the beat PC Bettles was on included Dorset Street, and covering the area down to Wentworth Street, the apparent non appearance of any policeman in the 45 minutes Hutchinson was waiting there a few weeks later is all the more strange. The policeman supposedly seen walking by the junction of Commercial Street by Hutchinson may then have not been ignoring Dorset Street as part of his beat. It very well may not have been part of it. However, there would have been a policeman on a beat along Commercial Street anyway so it would be easy for Hutchinson to say he saw one pass by at that end of Dorset Street.

[Monty]

I propose Long’s beat in my book, purely based on the 1930 H Div beat book.

Here is a photo of it and, if the same in 1888, one can see how complex it is. The starting point is Artillery Lane/Passage.

I do stress this is a day patrol.

Apologies if this more muddies than clarifies.

Monty

[jerryd]

Thanks for that info, Neil.

I do notice that 1930 beat book shows that large beat as Beat #2, where as the beat for Andrews in 1889 was Beat #11, 4th section. I'm sure it must have changed over the years.

Also Neil, wasn't the dividing line for the police subdivision Whitechapel Road? North to Commercial Station and South to Leman Street Station? If so, since the apron was found to the north of Whitechapel Road, and Long states he took it to the Inspector at Commercial Street Station, why and how did it end up at Leman Street for Dr. Phillips to examine?

P.S. Nice to see you posting again. You're always very helpful in these situations.

[spyglass]

I have always Felt something odd about the statements of Halse and Long, especially when you remind yourself that their statements were written nearly two weeks after the event and almost identical ( as I remember it )
it's as if they were copying from a prepared script.

I now work in between Mitre Sq and Goulston street and have now walked all the possible escape routes from one to the other, which is more beneficial than reading maps as you get more of a feel of it all.
I'm leaning heavily to out of the Square and proceeding either church passage or the other passage ( name has escaped me ) through Creechurch and onwards through Gravel Lane.
The more short twist and turns the better for not being noticed.

Regards.

[Wickerman]

I have always Felt something odd about the statements of Halse and Long, especially when you remind yourself that their statements were written nearly two weeks after the event and almost identical ( as I remember it )
it's as if they were copying from a prepared script.

I now work in between Mitre Sq and Goulston street and have now walked all the possible escape routes from one to the other, which is more beneficial than reading maps as you get more of a feel of it all.
I'm leaning heavily to out of the Square and proceeding either church passage or the other passage ( name has escaped me ) through Creechurch and onwards through Gravel Lane.
The more short twist and turns the better for not being noticed.

Regards.

Not sure what you mean by "two weeks", it has always been my understanding that policemen are required to make a statement as part of their daily report at the end of their shift. There are always exceptions to this, like for instance if a constable is not aware a crime has occurred and is later called as a witness, he can only give his statement when requested to do so.
However, with regards to both Halse & Long, I'm sure they would fill out a complete report describing their involvement in any incident, at the end of their shift, before they leave the station.

[spyglass]

Not sure what you mean by "two weeks", it has always been my understanding that policemen are required to make a statement as part of their daily report at the end of their shift. There are always exceptions to this, like for instance if a constable is not aware a crime has occurred and is later called as a witness, he can only give his statement when requested to do so.
However, with regards to both Halse & Long, I'm sure they would fill out a complete report describing their involvement in any incident, at the end of their shift, before they leave the station.

Hi,
sorry for delay in replying but having to navigate through the casebook to find where I got my info.

It was established that Arnold, Swanson and Long didnt write their reports until the 6th November, the eve of Eddowes inquest.
This was five and a half weeks after the event.
I refer you to the thread "The Apron" posted some years back...it was Simon Woods who bought it to my attention....not to sure about Halse now, maybe my memory has let me down on him.

Regards