Ex Commissioner Henry Smith writing about Catherine Eddowes in 1906

[Herlock Sholmes]

So you agreed with Frank without knowing what he was talking about. What's up with that?

NEDG, Oct 1:

A man named Albert Backert has made the following statement:-

I was in the Three Nuns Hotel, Aldgate, on Saturday night, when a man got into conversation with me. He asked me questions which now appear to me to have some bearing upon the recent murders. He wanted to know whether I knew what sort of loose women used the public bar at the house, when they usually left the street outside, and where they were in the habit of going. He asked further questions, and from his manner seemed up to no good purpose. He appeared to be a "shabby genteel" sort of man, and was dressed in black clothes. He wore a black felt hat, and carried a black bag. We came out together at closing time (twelve o'clock) and I left him outside Aldgate Railway Station.

You mean the post where Frank actually told me that it was a story about Bachert seeing a man with a black bag?

. I wouldn't be surprised if he came forward as a result of the possible connection made by various newspapers between the suspiciously acting man with the black bag allegedly seen by Albert Baskert (Bachert) and the man with the black bag seen by Mrs. Mortimer

Have you got nothing better to do than to trawl posts trying to find something that ‘catches me out?’ You’re beginning to sound like a certain on poster on here.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

You mean the post where Frank actually told me that it was a story about Bachert seeing a man with a black bag?

Yeah that. FYI anything that Backert says should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Have you got nothing better to do than to trawl posts trying to find something that ‘catches me out?’ You’re beginning to sound like a certain on poster on here.

I'm beginning to sound like someone who actually remembers what other posters have said, from one day to the next. BTW, how's that forum diary coming along?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yeah that. FYI anything that Backert says should be taken with a pinch of salt.



I'm beginning to sound like someone who actually remembers what other posters have said, from one day to the next. BTW, how's that forum diary coming along?

So you have perfect recall and I don’t. It’s a criticism that doesn’t really bother me. After all, conspiracist childishness just becomes white noise after so long that it’s easy to switch off.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

So you have perfect recall and I don’t. It’s a criticism that doesn’t really bother me. After all, conspiracist childishness just becomes white noise after so long that it’s easy to switch off.

The only childishness is your constant labelling of everything you don't like, as a conspiracy theory. What conspiracy has been suggested in relation to Leon Goldstein?

[GBinOz]

Thanks George.

It looks like my prediction of a 5-0 is coming true. A pathetic performance so far from England. It’s not even a particularly strong Aussie team by their usual standards but they’re walking all over us.

Hi Herlock,

You're very welcome. I found the narrative immediately preceding the Bachert article, the milkman's sighting of the man with the white overalls in a black shiny bag, to be interesting, particularly when he matched Packer's description and had "eyes large and staring". Then we have the testimony of Thomas Ede at the Nicolls inquest regarding his sighting of a man with a knife on the morning of Chapman's murder who he described as 5 ft. 8 in. high, about thirty-five years of age, with a dark moustache and whiskers wearing a double-peaked cap, a short dark brown jacket, a pair of clean white overalls over dark trousers and had a fearful look about the eyes. The latter was later identified as John James, a harmless lunatic well known in the neighbourhood. Trivia of no probable consequence, but interesting never the less.

I fear that your Ashes prophecy may prove correct. It is raining here on the morning of day three of the fourth test, with more rain predicted for days four and five, but I suspect you would not be consoled by a weather based draw. Your bowlers seem to be realising that a ball that passes the stumps at knee height in England passes at chest height in Australia, but they are still not making the batsmen play at every ball. I think your selectors would love to have the luxury of replacing a sick century maker from one test with another century maker in the next test. Regardless of loyalties, the game is the thing.

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

The only childishness is your constant labelling of everything you don't like, as a conspiracy theory. What conspiracy has been suggested in relation to Leon Goldstein?

No worse than your constantly labelling of everyone that doesn’t agree with you (basically me) as someone so attached to the some kind of orthodoxy that he just can’t bare to see it disagreed with.

None as far as I know. We know what happened with Goldstein though. He walked along Berner Street once and…….well, that’s it.

[Simon Wood]

May I respectfully point out that there was no Harvest Moon on 30th September 1888.

[Losmandris]

May I respectfully point out that there was no Harvest Moon on 30th September 1888.

Does this mean we should question the validity of his entire statement? Or was that just an attempt at adding some colour? It can be so difficult sometimes. Especially when it comes to personal testimonies opposed to official reports. Do they include some insider information or are they based on either faulty memory or embellishment/personal grandstanding?

[The Rookie Detective]

Does this mean we should question the validity of his entire statement? Or was that just an attempt at adding some colour? It can be so difficult sometimes. Especially when it comes to personal testimonies opposed to official reports. Do they include some insider information or are they based on either faulty memory or embellishment/personal grandstanding?

Bump up for this excellent thread, thank you Debra!


This is a particularly interesting point because I believe that Smith's entire statement is trash.

He embellishes his statement by providing false data; but with a seemingly arrogant undertone that shines a light on him as a person.

In a way his words are also very useful, because they act as a window into the misogynistic mindset of a senior police officer and one that which perhaps reflects the opinions of many other senior officers at the time.

To state that Eddowes wasn't good enough for a man like Kelly, perhaps provides us with a viable reason for why the Ripper was never caught.

The tone of the statement is astonishing.

It would seem that because Kelly exhibited some form of intellect, that Smith accepted his innocence.

By itself that means very little, but it does elude to the idea that IF the real Ripper was ever interviewed and questioned; that a psychopath like the Ripper could have easily been overlooked simply by being charismatic.

When we have senior police officers who have such misogynistic views; it would have been relatively easy for a calculated psychopath to have slipped through the net.

Many of the senior officers were also Freemason, and when you add this elite gentleman's only club into the mix; it really is no wonder why the Ripper was never caught.

The attitudes towards the victims was frankly disgusting and I'm confident the Ripper knew that and used it to his full advantage.


RD

[Duran duren]

RD, I'm curious as to why many of the senior officers being Freemasons would get in the way of why JtR not being caught? I don't see the connection myself.

[The Rookie Detective]

RD, I'm curious as to why many of the senior officers being Freemasons would get in the way of why JtR not being caught? I don't see the connection myself.

In 1888, being a Freemason was very different to how it is today. At the time it was seen as a men's only elite club solely for men in positions of power across various trades and industries; at the exclusion of all females and the poor working classes with no specific skills (or those who couldn't afford the membership fees)

It wasn't only high ranking public officials who were Freemasons; it also included Publicans, Tradesmen and Businessmen; anyone with a skilled trade or occupation who was willing to pay their way.

It is interesting to see the sheer amount of turnover of members who came and went for whatever reason.

The reason why I believe it was relevant comes down to the mindset of those investigating the murders.

Sir Charles Warren himself was a senior freemason and a man in a position of power.
Imagine if you will that the Ripper turned out to be one of those skilled middle-class contributors to the "brotherhood" and nothing whatsoever to do with the anti-semitic rhetoric that was pedalled through the press in a bid to convince the world it was all the work of some lunatic Jew...for me that brings to the forefront a conflict of interest.

Let's also acknowledge that being a freemason amounted to being part of a secret brotherhood. On the basis of being "secret," It would seem reasonable to assume that at least one of those men of power may have had a taste for the macabre and been a sexual deviant at the very least.

If a prostitute is therefore butchered and mutilated, then it would also be fair so suggest that there would have been at least 1 police official who may have felt compelled to navigate the investigation away from any potential exposure of any members of said Brotherhood.

The question is; when push comes to shove, would the police move heaven and earth to capture a man going around cutting up female destitute prostitutes; or would they be inclined to protect their assets and valuable contributors to their brotherhood?

I am not suggesting this was the case of course; but it is rather telling when names like Druitt; Ostrog and Kosminski are mentioned posthumously in a bid to highlight suspects that included a man who committed suicide, a man who wasn't even there and a man who went to an asylum.

None of those individuals could have answered for themselves even if they had a chance to.

So while being a Freemason has nothing directly to do with the murders; the mind-set and motivations of certain members of the brotherhood would have certainly had an influence on the manner in which they chose to pursue the killer and investigate the crimes as a whole.


RD