Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ex Commissioner Henry Smith writing about Catherine Eddowes in 1906

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Ex Commissioner Henry Smith writing about Catherine Eddowes in 1906

    Here's a transcript of the portion of a 1906 article by Ex City of London Police Commissioner, Henry Smith, dealing with Catherine Eddowes and John Kelly and the question of where Catherine was headed. There were two articles published in Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine Vols 178 and 179 titled 'The Streets of London' and 'More about the streets of London' by LIETENANT-COLONEL SIR HENRY SMITH, K.C.B., EX COMMISSIONER CITY OF LONDON POLICE

    MORE ABOUT THE STREETS OF LONDON
    BY LIETENANT-COLONEL SIR HENRY SMITH, K.C.B., EX COMMISSIONER CITY OF LONDON POLICE
    Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine Vol 179 1906 pp 693

    The Ashford hop-fields furnished the Whitechapel murderer with one of his victims. The night of Saturday, September 29, 1888, was a glorious one. It was light as day when shortly after midnight Catherine Eddowes left the police station in Bishopsgate, and not three-quarters of an hour afterwards was cut to pieces. This woman was the wife of a soldier, whom she left to live with another man. She drank heavily, and that, as I afterwards discovered, was not her only failing. She and her "husband" had made some money "hopping" and had got through it all in a week's time. On the afternoon of the 29th she pawned a pair of boots to get something for supper; but, instead of doing so, got drunk on the proceeds and was locked up, --a typical case altogether of everyday life in the "Far East" When sober enough to take care of herself she was released, the "reserve man" in charge of the cells advising her to go straight home and face the "hiding" which she said she was sure to get from her "old man." His advice she did not follow, for instead of walking away northwards in the direction of "Flower and Dean Street," one of the very worst streets in that notorious locality, he noticed that she turned left, and to the left again up Houndsditch, which would lead her inro Mitre Square, where she met her fate, presumably in the endeavour to replace by other means the money she had squandered. A ghastly sight she was by the light of the harvest moon as she lay in the corner of Mitre Square, and one not easily forgotten. Her "husband"-bad as he was, he was too good for her-I found fairly intelligent, and with a certain amount of confidence in and chivalrous feeling for the miserable being with whom he had lived. God knows how his confidence was abused! "She drank a bit, sir" he admitted, "but I am sure she would never do anything wrong." "I don't want, I assure you, " I said, "at such a time to hurt your feelings, but what was she doing about Aldgate and Mitre Square at that hour?"
    "Well sir, you see," he replied, "this is how it was; she had a daughter, very comfortable, living in Bermondsey; and whenever we were hard up she would go across to her, and she never came back without something." This story I was disinclined to believe, seeing that he could not, or would not, tell me where the daughter lived; but after a great deal of trouble, having discovered the woman in question, I found she had not seen her mother for years. How the money was got when times were hard does not call for explanation from me. That explanation " the streets of London" will afford.
    Last edited by Debra A; 01-04-2022, 09:17 PM.

  • #2
    So Kelly felt the need to make up a story as to why Eddowes was found where she was. Did he suspect that she was soliciting? Or did she have another man that she was on the way to see which he didn’t want to admit to? We still have to ask why she headed in that direction though because if she had intended to solicit she could have done that anywhere? So was she heading to see a man who she thought might give her some cash or put her up for the night when she ran into a punter who sadly turned out to be the ripper?
    Regards

    Sir Herlock Sholmes.

    “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Debra A View Post
      Here's a transcript [etc]
      And it positively drips with hate...

      M.
      (Image of Charles Allen Lechmere is by artist Ashton Guilbeaux. Used by permission. Original art-work for sale.)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Debra A View Post
        Here's a transcript of the portion of a 1906 article by Ex City of London Police Commissioner, Henry Smith, dealing with Catherine Eddowes and John Kelly and the question of where Catherine was headed. There were two articles published in Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine Vols 178 and 179 titled 'The Streets of London' and 'More about the streets of London' by LIETENANT-COLONEL SIR HENRY SMITH, K.C.B., EX COMMISSIONER CITY OF LONDON POLICE

        MORE ABOUT THE STREETS OF LONDON
        BY LIETENANT-COLONEL SIR HENRY SMITH, K.C.B., EX COMMISSIONER CITY OF LONDON POLICE
        Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine Vol 179 1906 pp 693

        The Ashford hop-fields furnished the Whitechapel murderer with one of his victims. The night of Saturday, September 29, 1888, was a glorious one. It was light as day when shortly after midnight Catherine Eddowes left the police station in Bishopsgate, and not three-quarters of an hour afterwards was cut to pieces. This woman was the wife of a soldier, whom she left to live with another man. She drank heavily, and that, as I afterwards discovered, was not her only failing. She and her "husband" had made some money "hopping" and had got through it all in a week's time. On the afternoon of the 29th she pawned a pair of boots to get something for supper; but, instead of doing so, got drunk on the proceeds and was locked up, --a typical case altogether of everyday life in the "Far East" When sober enough to take care of herself she was released, the "reserve man" in charge of the cells advising her to go straight home and face the "hiding" which she said she was sure to get from her "old man." His advice she did not follow, for instead of walking away northwards in the direction of "Flower and Dean Street," one of the very worst streets in that notorious locality, he noticed that she turned left, and to the left again up Houndsditch, which would lead her inro Mitre Square, where she met her fate, presumably in the endeavour to replace by other means the money she had squandered. A ghastly sight she was by the light of the harvest moon as she lay in the corner of Mitre Square, and one not easily forgotten. Her "husband"-bad as he was, he was too good for her-I found fairly intelligent, and with a certain amount of confidence in and chivalrous feeling for the miserable being with whom he had lived. God knows how his confidence was abused! "She drank a bit, sir" he admitted, "but I am sure she would never do anything wrong." "I don't want, I assure you, " I said, "at such a time to hurt your feelings, but what was she doing about Aldgate and Mitre Square at that hour?"
        "Well sir, you see," he replied, "this is how it was; she had a daughter, very comfortable, living in Bermondsey; and whenever we were hard up she would go across to her, and she never came back without something." This story I was disinclined to believe, seeing that he could not, or would not, tell me where the daughter lived; but after a great deal of trouble, having discovered the woman in question, I found she had not seen her mother for years. How the money was got when times were hard does not call for explanation from me. That explanation " the streets of London" will afford.
        thanks for this debra!
        so it looks like instead of going to her sisters like she told kelly, she was probably out making money through prostitution.

        Comment


        • #5
          "Her "husband"-bad as he was, he was too good for her-I found fairly intelligent, and with a certain amount of confidence in and chivalrous feeling for the miserable being with whom he had lived. God knows how his confidence was abused!"

          Wow!

          Smith wasn't exactly a ladies man was he?

          dustymiller
          aka drstrange

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
            We still have to ask why she headed in that direction though because if she had intended to solicit she could have done that anywhere? So was she heading to see a man who she thought might give her some cash or put her up for the night when she ran into a punter who sadly turned out to be the ripper?
            She may have been heading back to the Three Nuns Hotel bar (next to where she was arrested earlier by PC Robinson) to meet a man she met in the hotel bar (possibly related to Bachert story).

            Comment


            • #7
              Smith's attitude reflects the difficulties the poor, and in particularly the destitute women of the East End, would have faced when dealing with the police. It's hardly a wonder the police were not exactly trusted.

              A few details are wrong, as we know it was raining that night (there was not a glorious harvest moon, nor was the area lit up as if daylight). Also, the testimony was that she left the police station heading in the direction of Houndsditch, and not that she was seen actually going down Houndsditch. While the overall gist is there, such details are important for us to keep in mind. Heading towards Houndsditch certainly allows for the suggestion she then went down Houndsditch, but it doesn't guarantee she did. Smith's presentation fails to alert us to that difference.

              As for the money spent on drink, I think Kelly says he and Eddowes spent the money from his boots together. It's one of the points that suggests she did engage in casual prostitution because it is unknown where she got the money to get drunk on in the first place. That's another detail Smith seems to have gotten wrong, but it plays a part in his negative portrayal of Eddowes, particularly as he refuses to recognize that people like Eddowes were often left with little choice but that between solicit or starve.

              Anyway, if she was heading from the police station to solicit in order to get a bed for the rest of the night, if she did head down Houndsditch that would take her to St. Botolph's Church at the far end, which was apparently a common location for soliciting.

              - Jeff

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Scott Nelson View Post

                She may have been heading back to the Three Nuns Hotel bar (next to where she was arrested earlier by PC Robinson) to meet a man she met in the hotel bar (possibly related to Bachert story).
                Could be Scott but I have to admit that I don’t recall that Bachert story?
                Regards

                Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
                  "Her "husband"-bad as he was, he was too good for her-I found fairly intelligent, and with a certain amount of confidence in and chivalrous feeling for the miserable being with whom he had lived. God knows how his confidence was abused!"

                  Wow!

                  Smith wasn't exactly a ladies man was he?
                  Especially considering the ‘chivalrous’ beating that she was expecting from him when she got back.
                  Regards

                  Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                  “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                    So Kelly felt the need to make up a story as to why Eddowes was found where she was. Did he suspect that she was soliciting? Or did she have another man that she was on the way to see which he didn’t want to admit to? We still have to ask why she headed in that direction though because if she had intended to solicit she could have done that anywhere? So was she heading to see a man who she thought might give her some cash or put her up for the night when she ran into a punter who sadly turned out to be the ripper?
                    In fairness and on second thoughts it could have course have been the case that she’d previously told Kelly that she’d received money from family so that’s what he’d assumed that she’d done on that night. So possibly she’d engaged in prostitutes but kept it from Kelly.

                    Regards

                    Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                    “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Fascinating find Debra! I thought the part alluding to it not being likely that Kate was heading to her sisters particularly insightful. Whether she was heading somewhere specific or was just actively soliciting remains a mystery?

                      I am presuming that Smith added the flourishes of detail i.e. the harvest moon etc. for a bit of colour rather than from ignorance or bad memory?
                      Best wishes,

                      Tristan

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                        In fairness and on second thoughts it could have course have been the case that she’d previously told Kelly that she’d received money from family so that’s what he’d assumed that she’d done on that night. So possibly she’d engaged in prostitutes but kept it from Kelly.
                        I think you are probably right there. Very sad for both him and her. Tragic in fact.
                        Best wishes,

                        Tristan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                          Could be Scott but I have to admit that I don’t recall that Bachert story?
                          Hi Herlock,

                          It's here:


                          Cheers, George
                          It's sad that governments are chiefed by the double tongues. There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. It shall be life. - Ten Bears

                          All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. - Bladerunner

                          ​Disagreeing doesn't have to be disagreeable - Jeff Hamm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks George.

                            It looks like my prediction of a 5-0 is coming true. A pathetic performance so far from England. It’s not even a particularly strong Aussie team by their usual standards but they’re walking all over us.
                            Regards

                            Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                            “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                              Could be Scott but I have to admit that I don’t recall that Bachert story?
                              So you agreed with Frank without knowing what he was talking about. What's up with that?

                              NEDG, Oct 1:

                              A man named Albert Backert has made the following statement:-

                              I was in the Three Nuns Hotel, Aldgate, on Saturday night, when a man got into conversation with me. He asked me questions which now appear to me to have some bearing upon the recent murders. He wanted to know whether I knew what sort of loose women used the public bar at the house, when they usually left the street outside, and where they were in the habit of going. He asked further questions, and from his manner seemed up to no good purpose. He appeared to be a "shabby genteel" sort of man, and was dressed in black clothes. He wore a black felt hat, and carried a black bag. We came out together at closing time (twelve o'clock) and I left him outside Aldgate Railway Station.
                              Andrew's the man, who is not blamed for nothing

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X