Jack's Escape from Mitre Square

[Wickerman]

This took some finding...the word was spelled wrong "sequestrated" for sequestered.

"...They have no doubt themselves that this was the murdered woman and her murderer. And on the first blush of it the fact is borne out by the police having taken exclusive care of Mr. Joseph Levander, to a certain extent having sequestrated him and having imposed a pledge on him of secrecy. They are paying all his expenses, and one if not two detectives are taking him about."
https://www.casebook.org/press_repor.../18881009.html

So by Scotland Yard or City Police?

[Abby Normal]

Correct me if I am wrong but other than Eddowes no males were seen in company with the victims prior to their murders!

So all this discussion about witnesses is academic.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

lol. priceless

[Wickerman]

This took some finding...the word was spelled wrong "sequestrated" for sequestered.

Apparently, it wasn't spelled wrong after all. The difference between Sequestration and Sequestered is an education in itself.

[Joshua Rogan]

Correct me if I am wrong but other than Eddowes no males were seen in company with the victims prior to their murders!

Well Stride was seen with two or more different men in the two hours before she died, and Chapman was apparently beckoned from a pub by a man shortly before she was found, and Kelly was reportedly seen with men at 23:45, 02:00 and even 10:00, which covers most possible ToDs. Also Tabram was last seen with a soldier and Frances Coles was seen to go off with a rough looking man 15 minutes before she was found.

But apart from those, you may be right.

[rjpalmer]

others have suggested that Andersen may be misremembering an attempt to get a witness to identify of Pizer, but I can't now recall the details of that, sorry)

Donald Rumbelow, 1975: The Complete Jack the Ripper, suggested Anderson's witness was Violena, and the suspect was Pizer.

Mr. Rogan, like the great Leibnitz, discovered this calculus on his own, unaware of Newton's efforts. There might still be something to be said for the idea, but I think I recall that at least one of Violena's children was baptized (?) so not Jewish. But check my math.

[Michael W Richards]

Well Stride was seen with two or more different men in the two hours before she died, and Chapman was apparently beckoned from a pub by a man shortly before she was found, and Kelly was reportedly seen with men at 23:45, 02:00 and even 10:00, which covers most possible ToDs. Also Tabram was last seen with a soldier and Frances Coles was seen to go off with a rough looking man 15 minutes before she was found.

But apart from those, you may be right.

The point that was being made is about a last sighting in the company of a man just before their murder. Strides last legitimate sighting with a man is 12:35...the claim is she is found almost 1/2 hour later, I wasnt aware that Chapman was claimed to have been seen with a man by other than Long...which is provably incorrect by virtue of Cadosche and Davis.... Kelly was seen entering her room with a man at 11:45 Thursday night and she is murdered hours later...anyone could have come and gone during that time, and Tabram was seen with a solider hours before her murder...so, not germane.

In the Mitre Square evidence, Lawendes sighting.. by virtue of the timing...if accurately Kate,...makes her company almost certainly her killer. Problem is that Lawende, despite the sequestering, was almost certain he could not recognize the man again...and he didnt get a good look at Kate, or whomever that was, anyway.

[DJA]

Apparently, it wasn't spelled wrong after all. The difference between Sequestration and Sequestered is an education in itself.

Well he didn't squeal afterwards.

[Wickerman]

Well he didn't squeal afterwards.

But I heard it brought tears to his eyes......

[JeffHamm]

The point that was being made is about a last sighting in the company of a man just before their murder. Strides last legitimate sighting with a man is 12:35...the claim is she is found almost 1/2 hour later, I wasnt aware that Chapman was claimed to have been seen with a man by other than Long...which is provably incorrect by virtue of Cadosche and Davis.... Kelly was seen entering her room with a man at 11:45 Thursday night and she is murdered hours later...anyone could have come and gone during that time, and Tabram was seen with a solider hours before her murder...so, not germane.

In the Mitre Square evidence, Lawendes sighting.. by virtue of the timing...if accurately Kate,...makes her company almost certainly her killer. Problem is that Lawende, despite the sequestering, was almost certain he could not recognize the man again...and he didnt get a good look at Kate, or whomever that was, anyway.

Well, to be fair, the last testified sighting of Stride would be Schwartz's testimony (it's a different matter as to whether or not one believes that sighting really is of Stride and someone, etc; just like the last testified sighting of Chapman is from Long, though one can dispute the accuracy of Long's belief, there is nothing other than possibility to suggest that she didn't believe in her testimony, and therefore it is the last testified sighting to be considered). For Kelly I think the last sighting would be Hutchinson, thought there are I think later testimonies of hearing her singing into the night? And of course, we also have the testimonies of hearing the shouts of murder around 4:00 am and also the testimonies of her being sick on the street around 10 am I think it was, so the last possible (not probable) sighting of Mary Kelly is the next morning, really (though at that time she was not with a man, removing it from the current point).

- Jeff

[Simon Wood]

The Penny Illustrated Press, 15th September 1888—

“The conduct of the man [Emanuel Delbast Violena] who professed to identify Pizer has caused much indignation, it having kept several experienced officers from prosecuting inquiries in other directions. His statement, clear enough at first, utterly failed to stand the test even of ordinary questioning.”

Violena was half-Spanish, half-Bulgarian.

[Enigma]

Apparently, it wasn't spelled wrong after all. The difference between Sequestration and Sequestered is an education in itself.

As a retired insolvency practitioner I saw the effect of Sequestration Orders on bankrupts. Sequestered is something many of us are subjected to at the present.

[Michael W Richards]

Well, to be fair, the last testified sighting of Stride would be Schwartz's testimony ....
- Jeff

As you know Jeff, Schwartz doesnt testify to anything. He gives a statement, one that is utterly ignored at the Inquest. Its why I said that PC Smiths sighting at 12:35 is the last "legitimate" sighting. I think we can use Brown to validate the sightings of the young couple on that street during that last half hour or so. If thats the case, then no-one at the Inquest saw Liz Stride at 12:45.

[Michael W Richards]

As a retired insolvency practitioner I saw the effect of Sequestration Orders on bankrupts. Sequestered is something many of us are subjected to at the present.

Its hard when you have to go into self exile to not only protect yourself and your loved ones, but to protect everyone else too. Be safe...everyone. This too shall pass.

[JeffHamm]

As you know Jeff, Schwartz doesnt testify to anything. He gives a statement, one that is utterly ignored at the Inquest. Its why I said that PC Smiths sighting at 12:35 is the last "legitimate" sighting. I think we can use Brown to validate the sightings of the young couple on that street during that last half hour or so. If thats the case, then no-one at the Inquest saw Liz Stride at 12:45.

Ah, fair enough, testify is the wrong word for me to have used. Schwartz does give an official statement to the police though, which would make his the last reported sighting. Legitimate, if used to indicate an official report, then would make his the last legitimate sighting, but if used to mean "in my opinion accurate", then that becomes a subjective call. We know he reported his sighting, whether or not it was accurate, has been debated ever since.

- Jeff

[NotBlamedForNothing]

As you know Jeff, Schwartz doesnt testify to anything. He gives a statement, one that is utterly ignored at the Inquest. Its why I said that PC Smiths sighting at 12:35 is the last "legitimate" sighting. I think we can use Brown to validate the sightings of the young couple on that street during that last half hour or so. If thats the case, then no-one at the Inquest saw Liz Stride at 12:45.

There was probably at least one person who witnessed Stride between those times.

[ES1001] Joseph Lave, an American living temporarily at the club, said - "I was in the Club yard this morning about twenty minutes to one. I came out first at half-past twelve to get a breath of fresh air. I passed out into the street, but did not see anything unusual. The district appeared to me to be quiet. I remained out until twenty minutes to one, and during that time no one came into the yard. I should have seen any body moving about there."

Note how Lave's period outside - 12:30-40 - neatly straddles Smith's 12:35 sighting?
This is quite deliberate.
The purpose of Lave's comments is two-fold:

1. To undermine the credibility of PC Smith, as a witness
2. To 'clear the deck' for the Schwartz incident - which is a totally fabricated event

This is what member Phil Carter had to say, regarding the identity of Lave:

I have been trying to track down Joseph Lave, witness at the Stride murder. "A (Russian) man recently arrived from America"...
I checked the census records for Joseph Lave all the way to 1901.. and cant find anyone to fit the name. Lave is NOT a Russian name. That is for certain.
I really would like to know if a newspaper somewhere holds a description of this man.

I wonder if that description would be anything like PC Smith's description of the man standing next to Stride, while holding the stack of Arbeter Fraint papers, that Wess had left for him in the printing office, just before he left #40 Berner, at 12:15?
Or was it more like the man with the 'Yankee twang', who bought grapes from Matthew Packer, and later squeezed the juice from them into a man's handkerchief, which was then planted on the victim in an attempt to take Stride away from the club property, just prior to her murder?