The Apron Again

[lynn cates]

expression

Hello Velma. Yes, not to mention the softer variant, "Lor'."

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

points

Hello Maria.

"I don't get the need to wipe out blood generating from “tame“ play."

My point is that there may not have been any such need.

"Lynn, incidentally this man sitting on the steps happens to be Fisherman's suspect for the Stride murder (and Stride's alleged mystery lover on the side). Small world, eh?"

Indeed? Very well. But why the foray to Goulston? Is he supposed to have lived there?

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

But why the foray to Goulston? Is he supposed to have lived there?

Don't recall, but it's in one of Fish's dissertations posted on casebook - quickly available through the Stride page in the Victims page.

[Hunter]

Tame play or 'fobbing' would still generate the need for wiping... maybe even more so.

[mariab]

Duh Hunter, but the discussion was ongoing about wiping blood.

[lynn cates]

hmm

Hello Maria.

"Don't recall, but it's in one of Fish's dissertations posted on casebook - quickly available through the Stride page in the Victims page."

Thanks. Sounds vaguely familiar. Must investigate further.

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

Forgive me if this has already been dealt with in this long thread, but does anyone know if it is clarified whether the piece thrown away came from an apron she was wearing or the old piece of apron mentioned as being wrapped up in red flannel which she was carrying in one of her "pockets"? An old piece is perhaps more likely to have a seam from a repair methinks.

C4

[mariab]

From the one she was wearing, Curious.

[curious4]

apron

Hello Maria,

Are you quite sure? No apron is mentioned in the list of her clothing, although I have heard it said that she was wearing one and in that case it should have been.

Cheers,
C4

[John Bennett]

Hello Maria,

Are you quite sure? No apron is mentioned in the list of her clothing, although I have heard it said that she was wearing one and in that case it should have been.

Cheers,
C4

According to Frederick Gordon Brown at the Eddowes inquest:

[Coroner] Was your attention called to the portion of the apron that was found in Goulston-street? -

Yes. I fitted that portion which was spotted with blood to the remaining portion, which was still attached by the strings to the body.

JB

[Simon Wood]

Earlier Eddowes Sighting

Hi All,

Evening News, 11th October 1888—

A great deal of fresh evidence will be given to the adjourned inquest, which will be held to-day, at the City Coroner's Court, Golden-lane, upon the body of the Mitre-square victim. Since the adjournment, Shelton, the Coroner's officer, has, with the assistance of the City Police authorities, discovered several new witnesses, including the daughter of the deceased, who was found to be occupying a respectable situation as a domestic in the neighbourhood of Kennington. She states that they saw the deceased standing at the corner of Duke-street, Aldgate, a few minutes' walk from Mitre-square. This was as near as they can recollect about half-post one o'clock, and she was then alone. They recognized her on account of the white apron she was wearing.

The story of Annie Phillips seeing her mother at 1.30 am on the morning of her murder appears to have been the result of sloppy sub-editing by the Evening News.

Here is the story as it appeared in The Times, same day. Note that Kennington, in south London, became Kensington, in west London.

"A good deal of fresh evidence will be given at the adjourned inquest, which will be held to-day at the City Coroner's Court, Golden-lane, upon the body of the Mitre-square victim. Since the adjournment, Shelton, the coroner's officer, has, with the assistance of the City police authorities, discovered several new witnesses, including the daughter of the deceased, who was found to be occupying a respectable situation as a domestic in the neighbourhood of Kensington. She states that she had not seen her mother for some time, and certainly did not see her on the night she met her death.

"Two witnesses have also been found who state that they saw the deceased standing at the corner of Duke-street, Aldgate, a few minutes' walk from Mitre-square. This was as near as they can recollect about half-past 1 o'clock, and she was then alone. They recognized her on account of the white apron she was wearing."

This report makes it sound as though the wearing of a white apron was unique to Catherine Eddowes.

Make of it what you will.

Regards,

Simon

[curious4]

According to Frederick Gordon Brown at the Eddowes inquest:

[Coroner] Was your attention called to the portion of the apron that was found in Goulston-street? -

Yes. I fitted that portion which was spotted with blood to the remaining portion, which was still attached by the strings to the body.

JB

Hello JB,

Ah, yes, but the pockets were attached by strings. Could he have mistaken pocket strings for apron strings in the general mess? And why no mention of an apron in the list of clothing?


Cheers,
C4

[curious4]

Hi All,

Evening News, 11th October 1888—

A great deal of fresh evidence will be given to the adjourned inquest, which will be held to-day, at the City Coroner's Court, Golden-lane, upon the body of the Mitre-square victim. Since the adjournment, Shelton, the Coroner's officer, has, with the assistance of the City Police authorities, discovered several new witnesses, including the daughter of the deceased, who was found to be occupying a respectable situation as a domestic in the neighbourhood of Kennington. She states that they saw the deceased standing at the corner of Duke-street, Aldgate, a few minutes' walk from Mitre-square. This was as near as they can recollect about half-post one o'clock, and she was then alone. They recognized her on account of the white apron she was wearing.

The story of Annie Phillips seeing her mother at 1.30 am on the morning of her murder appears to have been the result of sloppy sub-editing by the Evening News.

Here is the story as it appeared in The Times, same day. Note that Kennington, in south London, became Kensington, in west London.

"A good deal of fresh evidence will be given at the adjourned inquest, which will be held to-day at the City Coroner's Court, Golden-lane, upon the body of the Mitre-square victim. Since the adjournment, Shelton, the coroner's officer, has, with the assistance of the City police authorities, discovered several new witnesses, including the daughter of the deceased, who was found to be occupying a respectable situation as a domestic in the neighbourhood of Kensington. She states that she had not seen her mother for some time, and certainly did not see her on the night she met her death.

"Two witnesses have also been found who state that they saw the deceased standing at the corner of Duke-street, Aldgate, a few minutes' walk from Mitre-square. This was as near as they can recollect about half-past 1 o'clock, and she was then alone. They recognized her on account of the white apron she was wearing."

This report makes it sound as though the wearing of a white apron was unique to Catherine Eddowes.

Make of it what you will.

Regards,

Simon

Ok Simon, shot down in flames again! If you can believe what you read in the papers, of course!

Best wishes,
C4

[Trevor Marriott]

Forgive me if this has already been dealt with in this long thread, but does anyone know if it is clarified whether the piece thrown away came from an apron she was wearing or the old piece of apron mentioned as being wrapped up in red flannel which she was carrying in one of her "pockets"? An old piece is perhaps more likely to have a seam from a repair methinks.

C4

A very good point Inspector Collard states " states "I produce a portion of the apron which the deceased was "apparently" wearing which had been cut through and was found outside her dress."

[Trevor Marriott]

Ok Simon, shot down in flames again! If you can believe what you read in the papers, of course!

Best wishes,
C4

Of for that matter what any of the other main players have said