The Apron Again

[Stewart P Evans]

'Traditional view'

No, Lynn. The traditional view is that he simply didn't make his rounds proper, looking into the entrance ways and so forth. Then when called to task, he denied this, proclaiming he did his job but the apron wasn't there.
...
Likewise, the graffiti appears to be inconvenient to most researchers, because it suggests something else was at play in the killer's mind besides 'lust murder', which is what the Ripper murders are generally supposed to be. Therefore, the traditional view now has the graffiti unrelated and PC Long lying. I agree that when working up a case for a suspect, it's necessary to step back and review the evidence in the fresh light supplied by research into that person, but when real case evidence and police testimony must continually be dismissed, then either the suspect doesn't fit or the writer is doing a bad job of trying to make him fit.
...
Tom Wescott

Whatever is 'the traditional view'?

I believe that Long missed the wall writing and piece of apron when he passed at about 2.20 a.m. as he didn't check all his doorways properly. However, he did look in the doorway at 2.55 a.m. and spotted the piece of apron and wall writing at that time.

This is the most logical explanation. It is also based on experience of how police officers act and how they check their beats and property. To have admitted that he did not check the doorway properly on the first occasion would have led to disciplinary action.

My belief has nothing to do with 'the graffiti being inconvenient' nor with 'what the Ripper murders are supposed to be'.

[Rubyretro]

[

QUOTE=mariab;199385]She was carrying (recently unused) menstrual rags inside of one of her pockets, which speaks for the fact that she indeed still had periods

.

Maria -and your objection to washing ?

[Rubyretro]

This also comes into play with Lynn's Peeing Thesis (LPT).........there's no way of knowing how the system of a woman in this condition with Bright's disease etc. functioned. There's probably great variability in such things...

I'd put Lynn's LPT right out of the window -but I'm ill equipped to aim so
high.

[GregBaron]

Get your details right..!

Eddowes cut her own apron?

Perhaps she cut her own throat and mutilated herself also.

Good lord

Don't be silly Abby.

Obviously she mutilated herself then cut her throat.

Then a Giant rat came and took the organs and the knife.

Jeez, some people...



Greg

[lynn cates]

pieces

Hello Tom. That makes a bit more sense.

No, I would not dismiss Long's testimony--see no reason too. In fact, the only time I throw a piece back is when it does not fit.

I agree that the lust murder markers seem not to be in place.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

No, Lynn. The traditional view is that he simply didn't make his rounds proper, looking into the entrance ways and so forth. Then when called to task, he denied this, proclaiming he did his job but the apron wasn't there. My perspective, given no evidence to the contrary, is that he WOULD have in fact noticed the apron and/or graffiti had it been there. The lapse of time is inconvenient to the many prevalent theories which would rule out or potentially rule out the Ripper having had a bolthole - Druitt, Koz, broke local guy, so the way around it is to conclude Long lied and the apron was dropped right after the murder. Likewise, the graffiti appears to be inconvenient to most researchers, because it suggests something else was at play in the killer's mind besides 'lust murder', which is what the Ripper murders are generally supposed to be. Therefore, the traditional view now has the graffiti unrelated and PC Long lying. I agree that when working up a case for a suspect, it's necessary to step back and review the evidence in the fresh light supplied by research into that person, but when real case evidence and police testimony must continually be dismissed, then either the suspect doesn't fit or the writer is doing a bad job of trying to make him fit.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

satori

Hello (again) Tom. Ah, so Long was supposed to have missed the piece first time round?

Got it.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

majority report

Hello Tom. Thanks for that.

I believe that there was a view that the killer was in a door way, wiping his hands, between his killing Kate and depositing the apron piece.

Nice to know that's NOT a majority report.

Cheers.
LC

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Lynn. I'm referring to your post #273. The traditional view most certainly does not have the killer hanging back or seeking security between Kate's kill and the leaving of the apron. That's me talking. The traditional view has dopey PC Long lying about how thorough he was doing his job.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[lynn cates]

majority

Hello Tom. I thought each of the Arabic numerals represented the preponderant view? (Of course, not a majority have him living on Goulston st.)

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

As to 'menstrual blood'...she was in her mid 40s, under nourished, and an alcoholic -I seriously wonder if she still had 'periods'.

She was carrying (recently unused) menstrual rags inside of one of her pockets, which speaks for the fact that she indeed still had periods.

Eddowes cut her own apron?
Perhaps she cut her own throat and mutilated herself also.
Good lord

Good one! LOL.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Lynn,

It seems you've somewhat created your own scenario, stamped it 'the traditional story line' and then disagreed with it. I can't think of one author who has put forth that particular time line.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Steve S]

Just a thought..It's possible the apron already had a tear in it...So when the clothing was grabbed and thrown back,it ripped and came away.........?

[Abby Normal]

Eddowes cut her own apron?

Perhaps she cut her own throat and mutilated herself also.

Good lord

[GregBaron]

Deteriorating condition...

As to 'menstrual blood'...she was in her mid 40s, under nourished, and an alcoholic -I seriously wonder if she still had 'periods'.

Good point Ruby. Eddowes was probably in the condition of many 70 year old women today, even worse....

This also comes into play with Lynn's Peeing Thesis (LPT).........there's no way of knowing how the system of a woman in this condition with Bright's disease etc. functioned. There's probably great variability in such things...

Curious' point about a clean cut apron and Eddowes ability and motive for enacting said scenario is well placed. I think it difficult to seriously consider than someone other than the murderer sliced the apron....


Greg