The Apron

[Fleetwood Mac]

he therefore doesn't really need to tell you that he's JTR, because it's obvious.

Except it isn't obvious.

Let's say the writing stated: "oranges and apples, 5 for a pound, theft will not be tolerated, get them here".

Would you claim the writing was Jack's work?

[mklhawley]

Trevor,

I can't believe I'm saying this, but your ideas are growing on me. The argument between you and Paul B goes to you.

You're still not on my Christmas list, though!

Sincerely,

Mike

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor

Maybe he wrote other inscriptions and dropped other clues but we don't know it because they were never found. Maybe he wrote a Ripper letter or two. Or maybe he didn't. Trevor, I would suggest that we are all struggling to understand a perplexing set of murders, yourself and myself included -- the "Great Victorian Mystery" as Christopher-Michael DiGrazia dubbed it years ago.

All the best

Chris

Chris
There are endless possibilities but only several which are open to discussion and you are right the whole series of murders is perplexing and as a series you cannot discount Tabram, Coles or Mckenzie which many seem to want to ignore.

[ChrisGeorge]

On the run in a hurry yet he still apprently has time to stop and write the graffiti which as it stands has absolutley nothing to suggest it is connected to the murder or any of the murders. He dumps the apron piece not really knowing if it is going to be found or not.

Does anyone really belive that ?

Far more easier options open to him if he wanted to make it known the first being get the hell out of the immediate area not stop to write a cryptic message.Its easy to say we dont know the mind of the killer thats a cop out statement for those who want to belive in this theory.

Hi Trevor

Maybe he wrote other inscriptions and dropped other clues but we don't know it because they were never found. Maybe he wrote a Ripper letter or two. Or maybe he didn't. Trevor, I would suggest that we are all struggling to understand a perplexing set of murders, yourself and myself included -- the "Great Victorian Mystery" as Christopher-Michael DiGrazia dubbed it years ago.

All the best

Chris

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi curious

I believe you speak some truth. We probably don't have any conception of how the killer's mind worked. When we say "that's illogical" or "that doesn't make sense" we are not taking allowance of a type of mentality we can't really comprehend. There's the mindset of the killer but there's also the fact that the man was on the run and making quick decisions with an ongoing manhunt ramped up on the night of the Double Event because a hue and cry was on following the murder of Stride, shortly to be multiplied with the finding of the body of Eddowes.

Best regards

Chris

On the run in a hurry yet he still apprently has time to stop and write the graffiti which as it stands has absolutley nothing to suggest it is connected to the murder or any of the murders. He dumps the apron piece not really knowing if it is going to be found or not.

Does anyone really belive that ?

Far more easier options open to him if he wanted to make it known the first being get the hell out of the immediate area not stop to write a cryptic message.Its easy to say we dont know the mind of the killer thats a cop out statement for those who want to belive in this theory.

[ChrisGeorge]

Perhaps because the killer, writer, whoever is so out there that he thought he was being perfectly clear and had no idea that his brain worked so differently from the majority of people's minds that he was completely incoherent.

Just recently, I received in the office a "press release" so garbled I could not make head nor tails of what the writer was attempting to say.

When I discussed it with some of the editors who knew the writer, they said that's just how this person's mind works -- completely out-of-sync with the majority. This person is just impossible to "follow" or figure out.

This recent contact has demonstrated to me that a basically normal person might have no way to understant JtR.

Just a perhaps,

curious

Hi curious

I believe you speak some truth. We probably don't have any conception of how the killer's mind worked. When we say "that's illogical" or "that doesn't make sense" we are not taking allowance of a type of mentality we can't really comprehend. There's the mindset of the killer but there's also the fact that the man was on the run and making quick decisions with an ongoing manhunt ramped up on the night of the Double Event because a hue and cry was on following the murder of Stride, shortly to be multiplied with the finding of the body of Eddowes.

Best regards

Chris

[Malcolm X]

So why did he not just send the apron piece with the portion of kidney then if the kidney is beleived to have come from Eddowes. Then all would have known it has come from the killer instead of dumping it in an archway some distance from the crime scene just hoping someone would find it, and amazingly link it to a murder

i've no idea only JTR knows.

but that is not the point, only JTR could have removed the piece of apron and only he could have left it there, now is it pure coincidence that he's left it too close to that graffiti by mistake, or did he see it there, or did he write it...

well, because of Stride earlier on and the jewish connection to Dutfields, my guess is he wrote it, but this graffiti was originally intended for the gates of Dutfields.... i say this because, i very much doubt he found the chalk lieing in the filthy wet streets, i think he had it on him when he left home, this means that the crafty sod had something special planed for that night.

what went wrong ?......he got fed up watching Stride hanging around Dutfields, he couldn't get her to walk away with him earlier on and there she was yet again, waiting outside Dutfields, ``not tonight love, some other night maybe``, but more importantly, he couldn't walk off and kill anyone else, whilst she was still there, because she could've still been there for another half an hour, so that woman was ruining his evening and driving him crazy, he was sick of the sight of her.

she therefore paid the ultimate price for his frustration, he rushed in, quickly killed her and shot off looking for another victim, chalk in pocket !

maybe......

[curious]

If it's all about signature to verify CE, why doesn't he just sign the writing: "yours respectfully, the man who has just laid waste to the woman in the square"?

Perhaps because the killer, writer, whoever is so out there that he thought he was being perfectly clear and had no idea that his brain worked so differently from the majority of people's minds that he was completely incoherent.

Just recently, I received in the office a "press release" so garbled I could not make head nor tails of what the writer was attempting to say.

When I discussed it with some of the editors who knew the writer, they said that's just how this person's mind works -- completely out-of-sync with the majority. This person is just impossible to "follow" or figure out.

This recent contact has demonstrated to me that a basically normal person might have no way to understant JtR.

Just a perhaps,

curious

[Malcolm X]

I shouldn't say this in public, Malcolm, but I am an idiot. Just as well you're here to lead the world into your coming enlightenment.

Well, let's see:

He takes the apron because he is going to scrawl on the wall, and the apron is the signature.

If it's all about signature to verify CE, why doesn't he just sign the writing: "yours respectfully, the man who has just laid waste to the woman in the square"? Was he playing a game amounting to writing a load of rubbish unfathomable to man and beast, which, by the way, didn't mention a murder of any description? Why didn't he walk away from the crime scene and do his writing/apron thing at 1.55? The timing of the apron find is important here. Whereabouts between 1.45 and 2.55? Is the writing even close to the apron? Long doesn't notice the writing immediately.

Oh, and Malcolm, I understand you as plain as day, just don't agree with you.

dont worry i'm an idiot too, it's just that over the years i've seemed to come to this conclusion by trial and error only...... it just feels totally right

it is very true what you say..... he writes a load of rubbish and doesn't say that he's JTR..... it's like he's saying and you do see this type of thing quite often :- ``Millwall fc are crap``, he's just coming out with a silly statement, he's not telling you which team he supports is he.

but he does leave you with a bloody apron, that is obviously a perfect match, like a Jigsaw, to the original which is still on Eddowes, he therefore doesn't really need to tell you that he's JTR, because it's obvious.

as to the graffiti link and not being noticed at first, well this doesn't really matter, because it definitely was later and instantly linked to JTR at the time, and then foolishly removed, so unfortunately it's a bit of this and a bit of that.

i simply have faith that it's all the work of JTR, and not without good reason too.

.

[Trevor Marriott]

i keep telling you and i'll tell you again, he needed part of the Eddowes apron, so that it'll match back to the original like a jigsaw puzzle, but a piece of cleaning cloth from her pockets could have come from anyone, what is so hard about this that you dont understand, because it's obvious to me and many others too.

he needs the graffiti/ apron cloth that's left in this location, to link directly to his latest murder victims, so he needs something that must be personal to Eddowes only; to be left there..... so that there is no element of doubt.

why did he dump the apron there on its own?....because to do so means sod all to anyone, so why the hell did he cut it off in the first place, if she had cleaning cloths in her pocket to wrap up the organs/ wipe his hands instead....

no not at all, he cut off the cloth because he needed it for two reasons, he left it there in reference to the graffiti close by, because neither his message or the cloth will work, without either being present together.

if this gap in time is true before these were discovered, even though the copper might have had a good look, then JTR did indeed return to Dutfields first and waited there amongst the onlookers...... unfortunately we'll never know.

this last paragraph doesn't matter much, because all we need to know is that the graffiti/ cloth belonged to JTR and that it definitely refers back to Dutfields too..... in fact, this graffiti refers to Dutfields far more than anything else.

i can punch holes in any theory you care to mention, but this is far more realistic than a lot of the stuff that's going on around here, i've never heard so much crap in all my life that's worst than, ``someone else removed the organs``.... this is just bullshit

i'm quite happy with all of this, nothing of these last 3 murders bothers me, my only huge worry is this GH pile of crap

So why did he not just send the apron piece with the portion of kidney then if the kidney is beleived to have come from Eddowes. Then all would have known it has come from the killer instead of dumping it in an archway some distance from the crime scene just hoping someone would find it, and amazingly link it to a murder

[Trevor Marriott]

[QUOTE=Monty;195992]Nothing significant to say Trevor?

Just falsity and myth.

Monty
[/QUOTE

I rest my case !

[Fleetwood Mac]

i keep telling you and i'll tell you again, he needed part of the Eddowes apron, so that it'll match back to the original like a jigsaw puzzle, but a piece of cleaning cloth from her pockets could have come from anyone, what is so hard about this that you dont understand, because it's obvious to me and many others too.

I shouldn't say this in public, Malcolm, but I am an idiot. Just as well you're here to lead the world into your coming enlightenment.

Well, let's see:

He takes the apron because he is going to scrawl on the wall, and the apron is the signature.

If it's all about signature to verify CE, why doesn't he just sign the writing: "yours respectfully, the man who has just laid waste to the woman in the square"? Was he playing a game amounting to writing a load of rubbish unfathomable to man and beast, which, by the way, didn't mention a murder of any description? Why didn't he walk away from the crime scene and do his writing/apron thing at 1.55? The timing of the apron find is important here. Whereabouts between 1.45 and 2.55? Is the writing even close to the apron? Long doesn't notice the writing immediately.

Oh, and Malcolm, I understand you as plain as day, just don't agree with you.

[Malcolm X]

The issue here is that whatever theory is subscribed to on the apron, it takes a fair bit of explaining and assuming, and it follows holes can be punched through the theory quite easily.

So, I suppose we're talking degree/probability.

If you believe he returned to the street: then that would be an unnecessary risk.

If you believe he never left the street: then where is he between 1.45 and 2.55?

If you believe he dropped the apron prior to 2.20: do we ignore PC Long?

If you believe he didn't drop the apron: then where is anything remotely approaching evidence to point towards someone else?

Even if you believe Jack took the apron: why didn't he use Eddowes' material (after all, he rifled her pockets, and instead of taking something readily available he decided to do it the hard way)?

It's a mystery, not easy to explain whatever you go with.

i keep telling you and i'll tell you again, he needed part of the Eddowes apron, so that it'll match back to the original like a jigsaw puzzle, but a piece of cleaning cloth from her pockets could have come from anyone, what is so hard about this that you dont understand, because it's obvious to me and many others too.

he needs the graffiti/ apron cloth that's left in this location, to link directly to his latest murder victims, so he needs something that must be personal to Eddowes only; to be left there..... so that there is no element of doubt.

why did he dump the apron there on its own?....because to do so means sod all to anyone, so why the hell did he cut it off in the first place, if she had cleaning cloths in her pocket to wrap up the organs/ wipe his hands instead....

no not at all, he cut off the cloth because he needed it for two reasons, he left it there in reference to the graffiti close by, because neither his message or the cloth will work, without either being present together.

if this gap in time is true before these were discovered, even though the copper might have had a good look, then JTR did indeed return to Dutfields first and waited there amongst the onlookers...... unfortunately we'll never know.

this last paragraph doesn't matter much, because all we need to know is that the graffiti/ cloth belonged to JTR and that it definitely refers back to Dutfields too..... in fact, this graffiti refers to Dutfields far more than anything else.

i can punch holes in any theory you care to mention, but this is far more realistic than a lot of the stuff that's going on around here, i've never heard so much crap in all my life that's worst than, ``someone else removed the organs``.... this is just bullshit

i'm quite happy with all of this, nothing of these last 3 murders bothers me, my only huge worry is this GH pile of crap

[Monty]

Blah blah blah.

Nothing significant to say Trevor?

Just falsity and myth.

Monty

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Wick,

Thanks for that. But actually, it's rather accepted now that Kelly's heart was taken away by her killer. I believe the cartel made it official a couple of years ago, but you should double-check that with Monty.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Good idea with all his huffing and puffing on here I am sure he will be up for promotion.

Tom expect to be asked to name the cartel members because according to them they dont exist.