Was Kate really soliciting?

[claire]

I wouldn't press it either, Phil, with all the due respect She'd have to be very hung-over indeed to have an inkling who the killer was, and then arrange to meet him in a dark, secluded place in the early hours, no?

[JTRSickert]

Here's a question guys....anyone think it possibl that JTR was not very far from the police station when she exited? Like, for example, as Kate is walking out of the station, she looks down the end of the street and sees a man perhaps standing around or walking parallel to where she is and decided to head in that direction to see if she can secure a customer. They meet, make chit-chat for few minutes, and then begin heading towards Mitre Square.

Then again, that is assuming that:
A. JTR was back in time from committing he murder on Stride

or

B. JTR's true victim that night was Kate and Liz was murdered by another individual.

[bolo]

Hi Phil,

She also asked the policeman at the station as she left about the time, twice if I recall, as if it matted a lot to her. I just wonder whether Jack might not have met her earlier, too early for what he wanted, and then arranged to meet her later near Mitre Square. This might be a possibility if, as is reputed, she thought she knew whom the killer was - she might have sought him out in the afternoon and he realised she had to be silenced, So he arranged to meet her late and at somewhere dark and secluded.

In my opinion, the rumour that Kate knew who the murderer was is just another invention of the press, she simply was in the wrong place at the wrong time and bumped into an über-excited Ripper who was not satisfied with his achievements in Dutfield's Yard and then killed her in a bloody fit of rage. The nature and severity of the mutilations seem to fit to that.

Of course things look different if you rule out Liz as a C5 victim but that's another can of worms.

Regards,

Boris

[Phil H]

She'd have to be very hung-over indeed to have an inkling who the killer was, and then arrange to meet him in a dark, secluded place in the early hours, no?

I don't know about that. After all, Lawende et al did not see Eddowes and the man talking In the square itself, so maybe she did not arrange to meet him there. If she did not think he knew of her suspicions she may not have been too worried - and if it was John Kelly.....?

At the very least meeting Kelly would tie up her final conversation about a hiding when she got hom, and meeting someone... but I'm not going to go there.

I have, however, been intrigued by a recent post elsewhere that linked her giving her name to the police as "nothing" and the graffito which actually makes more sense if it refers to a name - "The Juwes are not the men who will be blamed for nothing" - (my emphasis).

Phil

[Addy]

Hi Phil,

It is indeed a nice link. It does however imply that the writer of the grafitti knew she gave her name as nothing or was in the habit of doing so. And she probably wasn't the only one if you could actually get away with it at the time. So it could also refer, if "nothing" was meant as a name, to anyone else who gave their name as nothing.

Greetings,

Addy

[Fleetwood Mac]

My solution is that JTR met Eddowes at a known prostitute spot nearby. They proceeded to head to a quiet spot. As she was soliciting they made a point of talking quietly so not to attract attention and she put her hand on his chest to suggest they were a couple rather than soliciting.

[Mycroft]

I think that she headed back to her usual Aldgate stomping ground, with the intention of prostituting herself. I think that when she got there she decided to head for the Mitre Square area, for one of two possible reasons. Either she spotted someone she didn't want to run into, like a copper that knew her,an enemy or someone she owed money to or she spoke to some of the other working girls, who told her that business was slow or there were too many girls working the same area. Prostitutes always have a trick up there sleeves(pardon the pun) and she slipped away to an area where she thought or knew that business would be better.

I find it hard to believe, that she walked with JtR to Mitre Square for several reasons.Firstly ,there must have been secluded areas where the girls took their clients nearby. They don't want to waste time walking, they want to get the job done and get their money quickly, so they can move on to the next one.I just don't see her saying,"Lets go to Mitre Square",when there's a perfectly usable alleyway close by. I don't think that JtR suggested Mitre Square, as that would imply that he had already planned the killing area. If you were going to pick somewhere to murder someone in private, you would pick somewhere a lot more secluded than Mitre Square, where there were regular police patrols. Also ,think of all the witnesses that could have seen them walking together, I don't think Jack would have wanted that.

To me, it's another opportunist murder where the killer and victim just happened to be in the same place at the same time and another murder in Jack's evolution, that led him to crave and plan for, the privacy and time, that he had to do his deeds with MJK.Just my thoughts anyway,many regards.

[The Snapper]

I can't quite get my head round the idea that Mitre Square would be a destination in itself but I still think it's possible that her murderer accompanied her there as part of a route to somewhere else. I think the frequency and pattern of the police patrols in this area would have been something people tuned into if only subconciously. I'm wondering if Mitre Square was meant as a pause on a longer journey. As she had already been detained once would a subsequent arrest would have meant a fine ? I think she was soliciting but being very careful to avoid being caught. In addition j.r-ahde makes the point that in his opinion most of the women had a view about who the murderer was. A false sense of security as it may have turned out.

"You'll protect me from JTR won't you ?"

Cue the carnage.

[Hunter]

Mitre Square could be a destination because it was a known location for prostitutes doing business.

[Rubyretro]

[

QUOTE=Hunter;143123]Mitre Square could be a destination because it was a known location for prostitutes doing business.

[/QUOTE]

That's what I think, Hunter.

I think that it was probably used by prostitutes to tout for customers on Jewish club nights, when lots of men (like Lawende and co) would pass the entrance to the Square when the club closed -probably happy after a few drinks with their mates, and ripe for the picking. Possibly men of mixed social class and a bit richer too.

Come to think of it, maybe that's why Kate had her hand on Jack's chest ? Maybe she had expected
to get more money from a richer customer, and she tried to push him away at first..until he persuaded her that a 'bird in the hand etc' ?

[Hunter]

Yes indeed Ruby.
The press made a big deal out of this fact after the murder as this was probably why no one paid attention (public, police, nightwatchmen etc.) to what was going on until a mutilated body was found there. Folks were used to protitutes doing business in places like this and minded there own business accordingly... Still happens now in certain localities of major cities.

[sdreid]

Kate was an undercover police woman and all the litany was ruse.

[YankeeSergeant]

First Post!

That would explain the recent brusing on her wrist. Didn't jack prefer to distract his victims by getting something from their pockets then pouncing on their neck?

Was he so jacked up about the last failure with Liz Stride he was willing to risk a struggle?

She was either soliciting/ or she knew the man she was spotted with from the Imperial club, placing her hand on a man's chest is either flirtation or friendly gesture. Could it be she met someone she knew?

Also another thing did Eddowes find her daughter that day? Maybe she did and it didn't go well that day? Hence the mighty bender, she took.

Garza, Begg states on page 168 in his Jack the Ripper: the facts[I]That she did not get money from her daughter and that even if she went to Bermondsey, that she would have been unsuccessful as Annie Phillips had moved due in part to Mom's persistant begging money from her. In another thread on how drunk KAte Eddowes was I ask just how much it would take to get her drunk as she was in ill health. Kindes regards,

[Versa]

I suppose if you want an alternative theory

Kate may of gone off to try to find her daughter, did not however find her but possibly did find someone that knew her and/or her daughter and that person gave her some money to be going on with.

Kate returns to Aldgate/Whitechapel understandably distressed that she's lost contact with her daughter and so goes on a 'bender' (the obvious thing for a woman who is upset and has drink demons is to drown her sorrows).

Upon release it might just be that she cant face John, she's hungover, penniless and miserable so heads of to find a quiet and dryish spot to spend the remainder of the night possibly with plans to be up early and get some money in the morning to be able to return to John with his money and not smelling of booze.

At the corner of Mitre Square she does bump into a man she knows and tells him 'dont worry love about me love, I'll find myself somewhere to settle down for the night', thinking he's gone off to a doss house or home she heads to the square to spend the night safe in the knowledge that she was a long way from the previous attacks.

Once snuggled down in a corner of a quiet square a reasonable distance from the rippers previous attacks JtR returns and attacks her while she's down hence no injuries to the back of her head.

Its a theory