The Bloody Piece of Apron Redux

[Errata]

The piece of white between the right thigh and the coat. Could that be the apron?

[Nurse Sarah]

If I had 12 rags in my pockets, it would be due to one b*tch of a cold

A very intelligent and thought provoking thread though which I am enjoying, thanks everyone.

[mariab]

Looks like everyone else has covered it very well, but one bit got missed.
Quote Maria:
“Also, let's not forget that there was no sanitary article smeared with menstrual blood found with the body.“

The reports are tantalizingly vague about the 12 rags found in Kate's pocket, which is very unhelpful. The reports say that the rags were spotted with blood, but it doesn't say what sort of blood it was. It just says 'some slightly bloodstained.'
The trouble is that it could be the remnants of menstrual blood that Kate just hadn't washed out, or it could have been blood spotting from the murder itself. The report says that one blue striped ticking pocket, was blood stained. I might have missed something, but if those 12 pieces of rag were in that bloodstained pocket, then they could have got bloodied that way.

Hi Jane, completely agree with you here, plus I'm not surprised that the reports about the 12 rags found in her pockets are vague.

Either way, the rags were there and if she was menstruating she would have used them and not her apron, so you're quite right, it does make Trevor's theory untenable.

Precisely. Although I can imagine someone claiming that allegedly the killer took the sanitary rag with him and that's why it's missing, which is a complete joke.
What I've also been thinking about, I doubt it that Victorian “unfortunates“ stopped solliciting during menstruation. I bet that they went on, especially when in need for money. In the poor lighted Victorian streets, I bet the johns didn't notice but afterwards.

[Jane Coram]

Hi Maria,

Well I wouldn't like to hazard a guess as to what they would have done back then, because I suppose it would depend on how desperate they were. As you say though, back in the LVP in some back alley, I would hardly imagine that it came into the equation really. The only thing that might have put them off is that if their customer had been drinking beer (and I suspect that most of them would have been), having sex while they were on a period would almost certainly give them a very nice dose of thrush - which presumably they wouldn't welcome that much.

There is actually one very good reason they might have preferred to do it while they were on a period though.

Prostitutes at least as far back at the mid Victorian period (that's the earliest record I've found which is 1852) knew about the safest times of the month to have sex. They would have probably just passed the advice around between one another over the ages. Even in the 1950s, when they had condoms, some prozzies would try to avoid the few middle days of the month if they could, and knew they were safer either side of a period, just in case the condom came off or split.

For those who might not know what the safe periods are, it's roughly five days before a period and about three days after. The few middle days of the month are the most dodgy. Of course that's not fool-proof by any means, but it's safer than any other time. If they were regular, then they could use that to try and gauge when they were less likely to get pregnant.

Other methods were a small piece of sponge inserted high into the vagina, quick withdrawal before ejaculation, anal and oral sex. Up market prostitutes generally used sheaths.

And this has got to be the weirdest thread ever on Casebook.

Hugs

Janie

xxxx

[Nurse Sarah]

Jane, don't mention the Rhythm Method to the men on here!

[Jane Coram]

Hi Sarah,

I reckon that there are a few men sitting by their computers with their mouths hanging open right now.

That was the refined version by the way. I was being delicate. Lol.

Hugs

Janie

xxxx

[Archaic]

The Weaker Sex?

I reckon that there are a few men sitting by their computers with their mouths hanging open right now.

Janie, have you noticed that the men have fallen silent over the last several pages of posts? A bit like in 8th grade Sex Ed class.

Poor guys...

We should be careful, ladies, you know how delicate men are.

Best regards,
Archaic

[mariab]

It's a known fact that guys can drown in a teaspoon of water.
(Kinda reminds me of junior high, when my BFF and I hang out with a boy who thought that girls menstruate for a couple hours only – and did we enlighten him.) But look at what Hunter wrote:

Ladies, I'm breathless... this is the best discussion I've seen here in a long while and all of you are the reason for it. This is a classic example of how a rational discussion should take place and I, for one, am grateful for your insight and input.

Jane, I'm probably too innocent, but I didn't understand your hint about customers drinking beer and the “unfortunates“ getting veneral diseases as a result thereof. But I've heard about the French using protection since at least the 17th century.
Many apologies for briefly highjacking this thread, but I really have to report about this, as it's indirectly related: I just got an email by a Samantha Jones with the title “pertaining to your application“. I was like “Huh?? Samantha Jones from Sex and the city??“, but then it turned out that she's the dean's secretary at Boston University, where I've recently applied for a position. It appears I'm still in the short list, but were they to look inside of casebook, I'd wager I'd be out of their list in a jiffy.
Apologies.

[Errata]

Precisely. Although I can imagine someone claiming that allegedly the killer took the sanitary rag with him and that's why it's missing, which is a complete joke.

Yes. because we know how keen men are to have to go and buy tampax, much less handle potentially used menstrual products.

And before anyone says it, if he'd had that particular fetish, the victim profile would be much different.

[Jane Coram]

To be fair to the blokes out there, it's not the sort of thing that comes up in every day conversation that men are party to. I'm sure we wouldn't have a clue about half the stuff they talk about in private! I hope the men on Casebook still chip in their two pennerth!

I'll get back on topic by the end of the post, promise but just on the thrush and beer drinking thingy:

(Actually this is worth knowing anyway.)Thrush is a yeast infection and the yeast in the beer can very easily cause a woman to get thrush because it increases the yeast level in both the male and female sex organs, especially if it is directly after the man's drunk it (and even more especially if the male's hygiene is less than scrupulous.)

It becomes exponentially worse when the woman is on a period for some reason although I have no idea why exactly, obviously something to do with body chemistry. Bearing in mind the hygiene of the sort of men that any of the victims would have been forced to take as clients, I suspect it made it about the worst scenario possible! If they were starving and desperate for money though, I think that it would have just been a necessary hardship. Incidentally, it could pass back to the bloke as well, so probably not much fun for them either!

Going back to Kate, and getting back to Trevor's theory, IF the person seen with the unknown man in Church Passage was Kate with a prospective client, and she was still prostituting herself, even though she was menstruating, then there is no way she would have been wearing a sanitary towel of any description anyway. Either way, I'm afraid that Trevor's theory still doesn't pan out very well.

Of course, that only works if the person in Church Passage was Kate and Kate was prostituting herself that night. If neither of those is true, then the above is irrelevant. I need to re-read Trevor's books, which I did buy and which I enjoy reading, despite the obvious problems with the Jack sections!

Hugs

Janie

xxxx

[mariab]

I'm sure we wouldn't have a clue about half the stuff they talk about in private!

We do, we do have a clue. It's not that hard to figure out.
Beer drinking and... eeww. There's no doubt I've learned some things today.
Back to work (for Samantha Jones, my new boss, which would totally fit with the discussed themes below), and I promise to not further highjack this thread.

[protohistorian]

ummmm.......we also discuss ways to invoke biology we cannot understand into criminal scenarios from the last century. Preferably in a way that irritates you ladies! Dave

[mariab]

I'm sooo irritated I'm about to go to sleep.
Back to work (which IS irritating, esp. on a Friday evening).

[Archaic]

ummmm.......we also discuss ways to invoke biology we cannot understand into criminal scenarios from the last century. Preferably in a way that irritates you ladies! Dave

Oh!

Thanks for explaining, Dave.

Is invoking Biology anything like invoking Baphomet??

Best regards,
Archaic

[mariab]

I think I'll invoke Baphomet about freeing me from work (while keeping receiving an ample salary) and letting me spend 100% of my time riding all day and going out dancing all night. Tis da good life.
Bored to death now.