1 red leather cigarette case with white metal fittings

[Sam Flynn]

Yep good point Sam- but it is odd isn't it- maybe it was an heirloom...

I recall, from Dave Morris's talk at Ripperconf '07, that Wolverhampton and Birmingham drew on the expertise of those who worked in the tinplate industry to make "fancy goods" of various kinds during the 19th Century, and "white metal" could certainly have been a tin alloy of some kind. A quick Google shows the odd antique cigarette-case from Birmingham cropping up at auction, so who knows...?

[Observer]

Ouch Sam

I think I need to read up. However the bones of the thread revolves around whether the cigarette case could have been owned by the killer. Bearing in mind that it was found on her person I think It unlikely.

all the best

Observer

[Sam Flynn]

I think I need to read up. However the bones of the thread revolves around whether the cigarette case could have been owned by the killer.

...then it is I who should have done some reading-up, Observer, at least in terms of the premise of this thread Of course, given that the cigarette case was found among Kate's apparent possessions doesn't mean it was legitimately hers. Casting aside the syrup of my previous suggestion - viz., that it might have been a memento of her roots - it's also possible that she had accepted it "in kind" from someon with a view to pawning it later; or pilfered it from some unsuspecting bloke - perhaps Jack himself! That display of apparent affection witnessed by Lawende and co., when Kate had her arm resting on the chest of yer man, might have been nothing of the kind. "You gotta pick a pocket or two..."

(Apologies for raving speculation.)

[Suzi]

He he all rants/raves excused at this time of night on a Sunday Sam!!

Yes I remember that wonderful talk from Dave Morris re 'that sort of thing'

Hmmmmm.. I honestly don't think that it *'belonged' to Kate,despite the fact that it was picked up alongside her body- Now whether it was something she had on her person an heirloom/a gift/or something dropped I don't know...tantalising though isn't it...

* When I say it didn't belong to her maybe I mean it wasn't hers to sell/pawn...I know what I mean....sorry if this isn't making sense!!

[joelhall]

probably hers. i doubt the boots were his only pair too. if he bought them coming back from hopping that suggests he was working bare-foot all that time? doubtful cos he wouldnt be walking much with all the damage to his feet.

perhaps he bought them to pawn, or maybe just got a new pair cos his were all banged up and decided they were expendable later realising how little funding they had left?

anyway again regarding the cigarette case, why would the killer leave it behind?

[Observer]

No need for apologies Sam, speculation (raving or otherwise) solved many a crime.

all the best

Observer

[Observer]

By the way I wonder what happened to those items Found on Kate Eddowes? Surely whoever eventually came into possesion of the red leather cigarette case would have realised the significance of the article. Were the Victorians collectors of such morbid items?

all ther best

Observer

[Suzi]

Oooooh yes sure they were- but where???- who knows 'eh........

[DVV]

I remember somebody tried to buy Mary's bed.
Isn't that morbid?
Mc Carthy refused.

[Suzi]

I believe they did- and yes Mc Carthy did refuse- now YES that is morbid- or just plain worrying!!!

[Observer]

Hi Suzi, and David

I'm surprised then that all that seems to have come down though the years is Kate Eddowes shawl, and it's authenticity is in question at that. You know it's a long time since the murders, 120 years this year, that cigarette case could have sat in the drawer of some police official only to be thrown out (with his demise,) by his children they not knowing it's significance. I'm raving now.

all the best

Observer

[Bailey]

Silly people, we KNOW where the cigarette case came from - it was Maybrick's, he kept his drugs in it and he dropped it by accident.

(Ducks behind the nearest shelter from the incoming torrent of derision).

In all seriousness, however... The case does stick out like a sore thumb amongst her list of possessions. If it was indeed found on her - i.e. in a pocket or something - then the possibility that it was a gift, or something she'd pinched might tie it to the killer, but if it was found nearby then we could indeed be looking at a scene not unlike that presented in the diary narrative - "Jack" gets home safely and then goes for a ciggie to calm himself and realises he's lost his box.

I do like that image of her quietly picking the pocket of the man Lawende saw her with

From the top of my head, I recall the case being listed as empty? As opposed to half-full or arsenic obviously, but not containing any ciggies or other goodies that Eddowes might have used it to stash? If we had more info on its contents or where exactly it was found, it might be a better clue. On the other hand "if we had more info..." is practically the mating call of the Ripperologist!

Cheers,
B.

[John Savage]

Great Pictures Suzi.

Father's disguise had me completely fooled.

Rgds
John

[John Casey]

One question that comes to (my admittedly rather obscure) mind is this.

What would your average victorian have carried their ciggies around in? Would they have had the cardboard boxes we're familiar with, or would they all have used cigarette cases? Unfortunately I don't have the answers...only questions!

[Suzi]

Hi John-
Sadly I don't know the answer-I believe cases were the norm,although how the ciggies were bought from the tobacconist.....boxes (wooden)I would imagine-probably in 50's or 100's, and then transfered to these wonderful cases. I went through a particularly floosyish period of affecting one at Art College,but kept running out and went back to the trusty No 6 at 4/= for 20!!!!!!
Am on the case........

Suzi x