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  • 1 red leather cigarette case with white metal fittings

    Hmmmmmmmmmmm
    Hi chaps- Just musing here and on the edge of my usual rant..
    .......NOW...this article was found around the body of Kate..
    ...............Bearing in mind that the day before, she and John Kelly pawned John's boots-leaving him barefoot- Is it even remotely possible that Kate would have been hanging onto such a pawnable article??-

    Now the possibilities that spring to mind are...She'd been given it by her killer,earlier that mysterious afternoon to pawn at a later date, or as a sweetener--It was lurking anyway in the darkness of Mitre Square dropped by a person/persons unknown --Kate had it anyway and kept quiet about it (unlikely)- or it was dropped by 'The Killer aka JTR' during the let's be honest- quite quick dispatch-slipping from a pocket or whatever-or maybe even left on purpose..................!!

    Any which way it does 'stand out' from dear Kate's meagre,sad possessions

    What do you think??
    Last edited by Suzi; 07-13-2008, 06:59 PM.
    'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

  • #2
    I have never read an account of him being barefoot. I think it highly unlikely that they would have pawned his only boots.
    In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

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    • #3
      Hi Kat-

      The report says that 'They were done up for cash' as Kelly put it -so Kelly put up his boots to be pawned presumably leaving him barefoot- I don't imagine he carried a spare pair!!

      Kate taking them to the broker in Church Street (whose premises still exist-allegedly!) where she pledged them in the name of Jane Kelly and giving her address as 6Dorset St for 2s 6d- with that booty (!) they bought tea,sugar and some unknown food and also had breakfast in a nearby lodging house,being seen there by the deputy Wilkinson.
      The afternoon then takes a mysterious turn......................

      Suz x
      'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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      • #4
        I still can't see them pawning the shoes. I know that times were poor and that they were hard up but they seemed to hav other items to pawn. As all the victims were listed as wearing shoes it seems like they were a necessity.
        In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

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        • #5
          Shoes were a luxury at the best of times... Those boots of Johns' were bought on the way back from 'Opping as a bit of a spend...aka something to pawn if times got 'ard. Kate's boots when her body was found were men's springsiders mended with red thread- Now where they came from and how long she'd had them is sad enough.........

          Whether John Kelly was barefoot is negligible- but whatever- as I said unless he had a spare pair about his person(!!!!!!!!!) before they parted for the night that sad day I would suggest he was- and there's nothing unusual about that sadly....

          The words of Kate as she left Kelly at 2 pm in Houndsditch -promising to be back about 4 pm- when he warned her about the Ripper- 'Dont you fear for me- I'll take care of myself and I shan't fall into his hands'- is still the saddest scenario of all time isn't it--- Just wish I could see Act 2 and 3 !!!...Sadly we know Act 4 ! x
          Last edited by Suzi; 07-13-2008, 08:32 PM.
          'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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          • #6
            [ATTACH]2594[/ATTACH] Interesting barefooted family- with Father disguised as a bush!!!!!

            [ATTACH]2595[/ATTACH] Well just a great barefooted May day floosie 1895!!

            [ATTACH]2596[/ATTACH] No barefoots here-but what a totally amazing set of pictures!! and what it's all about- I have no idea................. fascinating though 'eh........

            Heeee Heee Sam.... Come in and put the captions on first before I get banned!!!!! x
            Last edited by Suzi; 07-13-2008, 08:52 PM.
            'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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            • #7
              Click image for larger version

Name:	newone1.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	83.7 KB
ID:	654384 Blimey!!! Quite a pic!!! without a doubt a caption job! Odd though isn't it........

              S xx
              'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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              • #8
                Odd Very odd Maybe Jack gave it to her as payment and forgot to take it away with him

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                • #9
                  Lovely set of piccies. I still doubt that he would have pawned his only shoes. The streets were pretty filthy and I still think that he would have had something on his feet. I think I may becoming slightly obbsessed with this.
                  In order to know virtue, we must first aquaint ourselves with vice!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Yep reckon so myself!! Sorry think those wonders were supposed to go on another thread!!!! Weirdly weird pic though eh- thats what happens when you Google barefooted Victorian children!! Aaaaaagh Good job I stopped at feet!!! heeeeeeeeeee!!
                    'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KatBradshaw View Post
                      Lovely set of piccies. I still doubt that he would have pawned his only shoes. The streets were pretty filthy and I still think that he would have had something on his feet. I think I may becoming slightly obbsessed with this.
                      he he maybe- people walked around without shoes...not out of choice but ....tough old souls/soles in those days!!! Sigh- sooooo sad
                      'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by belinda View Post
                        Odd Very odd Maybe Jack gave it to her as payment and forgot to take it away with him
                        Hey belinda- Still reeling from your wonderful At The Gate re Liz- perhaps there's a Kate /Cig case story here OMG!!!!!!!!!!
                        xxx
                        'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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                        • #13
                          Hi Suzi

                          It would be remiss of the police would it not, if they did not check with Kelly whether Eddowes owned a red leather cigarette case with white metal fittings? I mean surely they realised that the killer could have dropped such an item.

                          all the best

                          Observer

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Observer View Post
                            I mean surely they realised that the killer could have dropped such an item.
                            As far as we know, the cigarette case was found on Kate's person - amongst the other paraphernalia found in her pockets. The only (inorganic) items found on the ground near her body were a thimble and some buttons, as far as I can recall.

                            Thinks: might this "white metal" cigarette case have been a souvenir of her days in the Black Country, a cheap heirloom perhaps?
                            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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                            • #15
                              Yep good point Sam- but it is odd isn't it- maybe it was an heirloom or something from a Dad /Uncle/Lover or whatever...if it was... and she didn't pawn it... although the temptation/need must have been there-Kate goes even further up my list of wonderful canonical victims!! (If that's possible!)
                              Last edited by Suzi; 07-13-2008, 11:29 PM.
                              'Would you like to see my African curiosities?'

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