Eddowes V-shape wounds are scissors I think

[Abby Normal]

I think Eddowes has had her face attacked by a pair of scissors. The V shapes aren't depressions of a knife. It's a sharp pair of scissors clipping downwards from above her head. I think JtR brought scissors to make it easier for him to get through their clothing and is using them also to disfigure them.

well a scissors being used would point to the hairdresser chapman, not a cop. ; )

[Jon Guy]

Hi Sam
as he said, or tried to explain in the postcard, he didn't have time. I think he didn't want to admit the whole truth, he forgot about saying he would cut the ears off, and then remembered at the end-and tried to do it hastily, botching it as he lost the part of the ear he did cut off in her clothes, and said awe screw it, need to get out of here.

C`mon Abby. Of course the Ripper would have risked his neck to fulfill a threat he made earlier in the week !! Even if Harvey wandered down Church Passage or George Morris was sweeping away across the street. He could have written the GSG on the wall in the corner of Mitre Square too !!

[Abby Normal]

This is unlikely, unless he was a police/press insider, as I don't believe that the text of "Dear Boss" appeared in the papers until after the murder. Furthermore, if he had somehow read it, then - as we agree - he could easily have cut off the other earlobe. In fact, he could have cut off both her ears, as "Dear Boss" suggests, never mind just one lobe.

Hi Sam
as he said, or tried to explain in the postcard, he didn't have time. I think he didn't want to admit the whole truth, he forgot about saying he would cut the ears off, and then remembered at the end-and tried to do it hastily, botching it as he lost the part of the ear he did cut off in her clothes, and said awe screw it, need to get out of here.


which makes sense after all the craziness that happened the night of the double event-and with the monkey wrench of being interrupted by a bunch of jews and how he was now probably thinking how to get back at them and deflect suspicion. his plans changed as the circs did.

[Abby Normal]

Jon and I arrived at our conclusions independently, although I didn't twig that the infliction of the wounds might have coincided with the attempted cutting off of the nose - that ingenious suggestion was entirely Jon's. However, we both maintained that the wounds were an accidental byproduct of a slicing action of the knife, and not deliberately written/drawn on the skin.

For those who haven't read it, my dissertation - which covers a lot more than the cheek wounds - can be found here on Casebook:

https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...or-design.html

Hi Sam
I agree on the face of it, it looks like the could have been accidental cuts at a failed first attempt to cut off the nose. However, and wicks picture shows it- for that scenario the killer would have to be slicing the nose down completely parallel to the face. dosnt work. the way a knife is held there will be an angle to the face-theres no way you can do it completely flat. its not a band saw coming down.


think about it-or hold a knife and try it. see what I mean?

In my mind they were deliberate, and I don't see any evidences for a scissors being used either.

[Jon Guy]

- as we agree - he could easily have cut off the other earlobe. In fact, he could have cut off both her ears, as "Dear Boss" suggests, never mind just one lobe.

Easily :-)

[Sam Flynn]

Yes, he could have clipped off the other ear. The fact the Dear Boss letter discusses it and then he tries to do it, tell me he likely read the letter.

This is unlikely, unless he was a police/press insider, as I don't believe that the text of "Dear Boss" appeared in the papers until after the murder. Furthermore, if he had somehow read it, then - as we agree - he could easily have cut off the other earlobe. In fact, he could have cut off both her ears, as "Dear Boss" suggests, never mind just one lobe.

[Sam Flynn]

I have no doubt you understood what Piquerism means. Sorry that wasn't meant for you.

No problem, Batman.

[Batman]

Eddowes' earlobe was partly cut, not clipped/snipped, and only one ear was affected. The killer could have cut off both very easily, if he'd somehow known about the "Dear Boss" letter. Also, it's quite legit to refer to something having been clipped off with a knife; one doesn't need scissors in order to do so.I know what piquerism means, and I also speak French, so I don't subscribe to the slack and incorrect extension of its definition to include cutting. "Piquer" means "to prick/spear/stab/jab", and piquerism should honour that etymology. The acts of slicing a throat, cutting through an abdomen or lopping off a nose with a knife - or scissors for that matter - ne sont pas piquer.

I have no doubt you understood what Piquerism means. Sorry that wasn't meant for you.

Yes, he could have clipped off the other ear. The fact the Dear Boss letter discusses it and then he tries to do it, tell me he likely read the letter. Which if not by his hand, is yet another nice red herring for police to chase up. Namely, waste timing finding who wrote the letter.

Also the creme de la creme (in french) example is ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wearside_Jack

The Yorkshire Ripper exploited this mistake by the investigators. Geordie accent? Sutcliffe had none. It was one of many mistakes made by investigators that allowed him to continue. He was on their short list with an investigator about to bust Sutcliffe for wearing the killer's boots and looking like the composites before Wearside Jack came along. He got 8 years in jail for that hoax.

[Sam Flynn]

The next job I do I shall clip the ladys ears off - Dear Boss letter.

Eddowes' earlobe was partly cut, not clipped/snipped, and only one ear was affected. The killer could have cut off both very easily, if he'd somehow known about the "Dear Boss" letter. Also, it's quite legit to refer to something having been clipped off with a knife; one doesn't need scissors in order to do so.

I hope you enjoyed looking up Picquerism

I know what piquerism means, and I also speak French, so I don't subscribe to the slack and incorrect extension of its definition to include cutting. "Piquer" means "to prick/spear/stab/jab", and piquerism should honour that etymology. The acts of slicing a throat, cutting through an abdomen or lopping off a nose with a knife - or scissors for that matter - ne sont pas piquer.

[Batman]

You wouldn't even have to make a cut to demonstrate this.

In the worldwide history of the medical science of pathology, including students making mistakes by slicing parts of a cadaver, they shouldn't have, that such claimed coincidental V marks/U marks, should be not just easy to replicate, but should have been replicated many times already in their experiments, day to day work and the professional literature.

Since the time this solution to the Vs came about, has any pathologist come forward to corroborate the mechanisms of the claim being made? Have they been able to show correlating patterns on other cadavers? If not, why not? I doubt it for lack of awareness.

As I said, this particular explanation can actually be falsified. You can know for sure, 100%, if it true or false, today, by repeating it. You can do a ton of repeats and run the test afterward to even get the odds of repeating it, but once you have done it, that should be sufficient to show it can be done.

Forensic dummy if you want to spend, but from a science perspective, corroborative wounds elsewhere would suffice.

[Fisherman]

If you are going to cut someones throat, and rip their abdomens open with a long bladed knife, are you going to fanny about with a pair of scissors. lets get real here folks !

www.trevormarriott.o.uk

Well, scissors HAVE been used as a murder weapon by for example Peter Kürten - but as a stabbing implement and not in the way suggested by Batman. Additionally, pliers have also been used, but then as a means for torture (Lawrence Bittaker).
I still think that the suggestion about collateral nose cutting knife damage, as suggested by Wickerman, makes a lot more sense.

[Trevor Marriott]

You skipped over my point about suspects and don't want to test scientifically what can actually be tested. Very little in this case can be. I'd jump at opportunity if I discovered that.

The next job I do I shall clip the ladys ears off - Dear Boss letter.


Maybe JtR read that and decided to clip with scissors and also stab with a knife.

I hope you enjoyed looking up Picquerism.

I dont know what medication you are on but it needs changing

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Batman]

You skipped over my point about suspects and don't want to test scientifically what can actually be tested. Very little in this case can be. I'd jump at opportunity if I discovered that.

The next job I do I shall clip the ladys ears off - Dear Boss letter.


Maybe JtR read that and decided to clip with scissors and also stab with a knife.

I hope you enjoyed looking up Picquerism.

[Sam Flynn]

I don't think we need to demonstrate that, having inflicted so many wounds with a knife, the killer was highly unlikely to, quote, "fanny about" with a pair of scissors just to inflict a couple more. Especially when the two wounds in question could quite easily have been inflicted with the same implement as all the others.

[Batman]

Several suspects with knives also had scissors on them. In news reports. Also a picquerist with some was found.

The claims made on this thread are actually falsifiable. All you would have to do is the demonstration.