Richardson's View

[Herlock Sholmes]

. John Richardson, a tall, stout man, with a very pale face - the result, doubtless, of the early hours he keeps as a market Porter - a brown moustache, and dark brown hair. He was shabbily dressed in a ragged coat, and dark brown trousers.

The East London Observer don’t mention long hair, one good eye and twisted body either. Or epilepsy come to that.

[DJA]

[The Baron]

I don't know any background on that quote

So you want me to stop quoting this, because you don't know any background on that quote!!

Excellent!



The Baron

[harry]

Similar to what it would have been.

[DJA]

So you want me to stop quoting this, because you don't know any background on that quote!!

Excellent!



The Baron

Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper did not publish an edition on 10th September,1888.

[harry]

Richarson's posistion.

[Harry D]

Jon Guy posted on 16.08.2019:


[[Found it !!

Lloyds Sept 10th 1888:
Our representative spoke to the son of the lady who lived in the house where the murdered woman was found.
John Richardson, a big man peculiarly twisted to the right, swept the long hair back from his face and with his one good eye surveyed the small, muddy yard where the mutilated woman was discovered two days ago.]]




So could you elaborate what was the joke exactly instead of repeating what others say?



The Baron

It's a pisstake, Baron. And an obvious one at that.

Feel free to verify it yourself. After all, you have the same resources as him.

[Herlock Sholmes]

So you want me to stop quoting this, because you don't know any background on that quote!!

Excellent!



The Baron

I can’t stop you posting anything Baron but I can’t see how you didn’t feel that the quote was dodgy when you first read it as it pretty much screams ‘joke?’ Dave has now told you that there was no issue of that paper on that day. I don’t think you can get more conclusive than that.

As the quote doesn’t mention epilepsy I did wonder where you got that from? Has it been quoted elsewhere?

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

It's a pisstake, Baron. And an obvious one at that.

Feel free to verify it yourself. After all, you have the same resources as him.

When the coroner asked Richardson how he knew what time he got up, he replied "the bells!, the bells!"

[Michael W Richards]

You would think epilepsy could only be relevant here if he confirmed he was experiencing symptoms at that time. He didnt mention such a state of mind, nor was his ability to be certain of his facts questioned. As with other witnesses throughout this "series". The body would have been clearly visible had he sat down on the steps..yes, even on the top one.

When you adopt the position that Annie may well have been there unseen, despite the contrary logic that presents, you still have people on that same spot making sounds after that point in time. Are these people straddling the body to have their coupling? Was this 3 people that entered the yard, with Annie being among them?

That point alone indicates to me that the probability leans heavily towards a murder time of 5:10-5:20, when they first entered the yard is at some point between Richardsons vigil and Cadosches voices heard.

[Herlock Sholmes]

When the coroner asked Richardson how he knew what time he got up, he replied "the bells!, the bells!"

[Herlock Sholmes]

You would think epilepsy could only be relevant here if he confirmed he was experiencing symptoms at that time. He didnt mention such a state of mind, nor was his ability to be certain of his facts questioned. As with other witnesses throughout this "series". The body would have been clearly visible had he sat down on the steps..yes, even on the top one.

When you adopt the position that Annie may well have been there unseen, despite the contrary logic that presents, you still have people on that same spot making sounds after that point in time. Are these people straddling the body to have their coupling? Was this 3 people that entered the yard, with Annie being among them?

That point alone indicates to me that the probability leans heavily towards a murder time of 5:10-5:20, when they first entered the yard is at some point between Richardsons vigil and Cadosches voices heard.

Exactly Michael. So not only was Richardson either unbelievably dim or a liar then we have to accuse Cadosch of the same things just to confirm a doctors t.o.d arrived at by methods that we know are rife with ways of getting it wrong.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Similar to what it would have been.

The body would have been even further down Harry. The top of her head was 6-9 inches from the level of the bottom step.

[Abby Normal]

The body would have been even further down Harry. The top of her head was 6-9 inches from the level of the bottom step.

i think it would have been alittle lighter too

[Chava]

i think it would have been alittle lighter too

Not at that time of night. It's September not May.
Also I've looked again at the testimony of Long & Cadoche. Now the time discrepancy isn't that important. I can make a case for Cadoche's clock being slow. There was no such thing as totally standard times then. It's not like they could look at their iPhones to check the time! Cadoche could easily have been 10 minutes out. Even 15 minutes.

However this does interest me:

Albert Cadosch [Cadoche] deposed: I live at 27, Hanbury-street, and am a carpenter. 27 is next door to 29, Hanbury-street. On Saturday, Sept. 8, I got up about a quarter past five in the morning, and went into the yard. It was then about twenty minutes past five, I should think. As I returned towards the back door I heard a voice say "No" just as I was going through the door. It was not in our yard, but I should think it came from the yard of No. 29. I, however, cannot say on which side it came from. I went indoors, but returned to the yard about three or four minutes afterwards. While coming back I heard a sort of a fall against the fence which divides my yard from that of 29. It seemed as if something touched the fence suddenly.

If you look at the backyards of 29 & 27 the backdoor to 27 is right next to the area where Annie was killed. So he is very close to the action. He says he hears someone say 'no'. Not in his yard. But he thinks it came from 29. However he's not sure. But he is 'going through the door'. Which is around 2' max from the murder. If that's Annie being killed, then she's being killed right next to him. He hears her voice. But it's 'from the yard'. Whereas actually it's right down his ear. And he hears nothing else. Not a rustle of clothing. Nothing. We've taken his evidence as indicative of the time of the murder. We've never questioned it. I'm questioning it now. I'm also questioning his recollection of the 'fall against the palings' which many of us thought was the door banging back as the murderer left. Cadoche gets up, dressed and goes to the loo in the outdoor privy around 5.20 am. Likely hears 'no' around 5.22 am. He then goes back to the house and 'three or four minutes later' goes to the privy again so 5.27 am. He then returns to the house let's say 5.29 and goes to work noticing the time as 5.37 am by Spitalfields Clock. That suggests the murderer spent at least 7 minutes, possibly more, with the victim. Now 7 minutes is quite a long time. And unless the murderer is deaf, he's heard the next door open and close. If Annie has managed to say anything along the lines of 'no' he has to assume the neighbour has heard it. Does he really hang around for 7 minutes? Also, frankly, if AC is going to the loo twice in that very short space of time it sounds like he had some intestinal complication. And these events are rarely dealt with quickly. I think he was likely much longer in the privy than he admits to. I'm no longer treating his evidence with the confidence that I used to have.