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  • #46
    Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

    As I see it whether Richardson would have seen the body, in my opinion, is dependant oh how far he opened the door and in which direction his vision was focussed.

    www.trevormarriott.co.uk
    Of course. It should be very obvious, but for some reason it seems it is not. It is as if people are accepting that Richardson MUST have opened the door far enough to guarantee him to get a view of the corpse - and that he MUST have looked to the left, the one direction he had no reason at all to look in.

    Itīs a funny old business, ripperology!

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post


      Not withstanding that there were no other murders which took place at that time of the morning

      www.trevormarriott.co.uk
      Exactly so.

      Comment


      • #48
        If he had to tie(The laces?)of his boot,it sujjests to me he had taken the boot off to cut the leather,then replaced the boot.If so,sat on the middle step,his gaze would have been downward more than enough time to see that part of the body close to the feet.Even with the feet drawn up,part of the body must have projected past the bottom step.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Fisherman View Post

          Richardson was suffering from a cold as these things unveiled, Yabs. It is mentioned in the paper reports.
          Do you know which papers, Fish? I like little details like that. I can recall it being mentioned that he had a hoarse voice, but that doesn't necessarily mean he had a cold.

          Comment


          • #50
            When a west wind blows,my door not only slams shut,it takes an effort to open.

            With the door @ 60 degrees,Richardson would have seen more of Chapman,as he bent to sit.Would have been squeezey for him if he had average shoulders.
            Find a 12 or 13 year old who can explain Pythagorean theory to you.
            Nah,better not.Prolly scar the kid for life.

            Ever heard of peripheral vision?
            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by DJA View Post
              When a west wind blows,my door not only slams shut,it takes an effort to open.

              With the door @ 60 degrees,Richardson would have seen more of Chapman,as he bent to sit.Would have been squeezey for him if he had average shoulders.
              Find a 12 or 13 year old who can explain Pythagorean theory to you.
              Nah,better not.Prolly scar the kid for life.

              Ever heard of peripheral vision?
              Iīve heard of all sorts of visions.

              Comment


              • #52
                John Davies [Davis] deposed: I am a carman employed at Leadenhall Market. I have lodged at 29, Hanbury-street for a fortnight, and I occupied the top front room on the third floor with my wife and three sons, who live with me. On Friday night I went to bed at eight o'clock, and my wife followed about half an hour later. My sons came to bed at different times, the last one at about a quarter to eleven. There is a weaving shed window, or light across the room. It was not open during the night. I was awake from three a.m. to five a.m. on Saturday, and then fell asleep until a quarter to six, when the clock at Spitalfields Church struck. I had a cup of tea and went downstairs to the back yard. The house faces Hanbury-street, with one window on the ground floor and a front door at the side leading into a passage which runs through into the yard. There is a back door at the end of this passage opening into the yard. Neither of the doors was able to be locked, and I have never seen them locked. Any one who knows where the latch of the front door is could open it and go along the passage into the back yard.
                [Coroner] When you went into the yard on Saturday morning was the yard door open or shut? - I found it shut. I cannot say whether it was latched - I cannot remember. I have been too much upset. The front street door was wide open and thrown against the wall. I was not surprised to find the front door open, as it was not unusual. I opened the back door, and stood in the entrance.
                [Coroner] Will you describe the yard? - It is a large yard. Facing the door, on the opposite side, on my left as I was standing, there is a shed, in which Mrs. Richardson keeps her wood. In the right-hand corner there is a closet. The yard is separated from the next premises on both sides by close wooden fencing, about 5 ft. 6 in. high.
                The Coroner: I hope the police will supply me with a plan. In the country, in cases of importance, I always have one.Inspector Helson:
                [Insp Helosn] We shall have one at the adjourned hearing.
                The Coroner: Yes; by that time we shall hardly require it.


                Examination resumed: There was a little recess on the left. From the steps to the fence is about 3 ft. There are three stone steps, unprotected, leading from the door to the yard, which is at a lower level than that of the passage. Directly I opened the door I saw a woman lying down in the lefthand recess, between the stone steps and the fence. She was on her back, with her head towards the house and her legs towards the wood shed. The clothes were up to her groins. I did not go into the yard, but left the house by the front door, and called the attention of two men to the circumstances.
                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by DJA View Post
                  John Davies [Davis] deposed: I am a carman employed at Leadenhall Market. I have lodged at 29, Hanbury-street for a fortnight, and I occupied the top front room on the third floor with my wife and three sons, who live with me. On Friday night I went to bed at eight o'clock, and my wife followed about half an hour later. My sons came to bed at different times, the last one at about a quarter to eleven. There is a weaving shed window, or light across the room. It was not open during the night. I was awake from three a.m. to five a.m. on Saturday, and then fell asleep until a quarter to six, when the clock at Spitalfields Church struck. I had a cup of tea and went downstairs to the back yard. The house faces Hanbury-street, with one window on the ground floor and a front door at the side leading into a passage which runs through into the yard. There is a back door at the end of this passage opening into the yard. Neither of the doors was able to be locked, and I have never seen them locked. Any one who knows where the latch of the front door is could open it and go along the passage into the back yard.
                  [Coroner] When you went into the yard on Saturday morning was the yard door open or shut? - I found it shut. I cannot say whether it was latched - I cannot remember. I have been too much upset. The front street door was wide open and thrown against the wall. I was not surprised to find the front door open, as it was not unusual. I opened the back door, and stood in the entrance.
                  [Coroner] Will you describe the yard? - It is a large yard. Facing the door, on the opposite side, on my left as I was standing, there is a shed, in which Mrs. Richardson keeps her wood. In the right-hand corner there is a closet. The yard is separated from the next premises on both sides by close wooden fencing, about 5 ft. 6 in. high.
                  The Coroner: I hope the police will supply me with a plan. In the country, in cases of importance, I always have one.Inspector Helson:
                  [Insp Helosn] We shall have one at the adjourned hearing.
                  The Coroner: Yes; by that time we shall hardly require it.


                  Examination resumed: There was a little recess on the left. From the steps to the fence is about 3 ft. There are three stone steps, unprotected, leading from the door to the yard, which is at a lower level than that of the passage. Directly I opened the door I saw a woman lying down in the lefthand recess, between the stone steps and the fence. She was on her back, with her head towards the house and her legs towards the wood shed. The clothes were up to her groins. I did not go into the yard, but left the house by the front door, and called the attention of two men to the circumstances.
                  Yes, directly John Davis opened the door, he saw a woman lying in the lefthand recess.

                  However, what this information tells us is that A/ Davis opened the door enough to allow for him to see Chapman. And since he was on his way to the loo (if I remember correctly), there was no way that he would NOT see Chapman for the simple reason that he would never end up in a position where the door always hid her from sight, and B/ Davis looked to his left - otherwise, he would not have seen Chapman. Furthermore, there was full light at this stage, whereas there was not when Richardson was in place. Plus he did NOT pass down the stairs and out into the backyard the way Davis did, and we donīt know that he ever glanced to his left. In fact, if he had the doorblade resting in a 60 degree angle against his body, if he DID look to his left, all he would see was the wood of the door and the concrete of the stairs.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                    Do you know which papers, Fish? I like little details like that. I can recall it being mentioned that he had a hoarse voice, but that doesn't necessarily mean he had a cold.
                    Nope, I canīt name the paper/s. Iīm not even absolutely certain about a cold being mentioned, but to the best of my recollection it was so. When and if I find the time to look for it, I will do so.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Directly I opened the door I saw a woman lying down in the lefthand recess, between the stone steps and the fence. She was on her back, with her head towards the house and her legs towards the wood shed. The clothes were up to her groins. I did not go into the yard
                      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post

                        Do you know which papers, Fish? I like little details like that. I can recall it being mentioned that he had a hoarse voice, but that doesn't necessarily mean he had a cold.
                        Jon Guy mentioned the cold on the previous thread exactly 13 months ago.

                        You know,the thread that was suspended,etc,etc.
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          If we just imagine a man standing at ground level (as Richardson would have had to have done before he sat down) then the door would have been against his left hand side and at around 90 degrees. Surely the natural thing, either as he descended the steps or as he sat down, would have been to push the door open wider?
                          For Richardson to have missed her he’d have had acted almost as if he intentionally was avoiding seeing her (I’m not suggesting intention btw) Looking only to the right, keeping the door open only diagonally and then sitting with the door pressing against the left side of his body (awkward when trying to do repair work on a shoe)
                          If he was mistaken then we are assuming that Richardson was unaware of the concept of an object being hidden. He said that he couldn’t have missed a body so on what grounds do we suggest that he was mistaken? If it wasn’t for Phillips no one would have proposed that he could have missed the body.
                          Very little can be called impossible but I’d say we can call the suggestion that Richardson missed the body as unlikely in the extreme.
                          Regards

                          Herlock




                          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Fisherman View Post

                            Jon, Iīve explained this before. The door swung back against anybody who opened it.
                            Yes, Christer, that is your assumption. Richardson does not say the door rested against his arm as he sat there.
                            This second guessing what a witness saw is desperate, PC Long is treated the same way. He was certain the apron was not there, he did after all see the same spot both before & after, so he is in a good position to judge.
                            Likewise with Richardson, he was just as certain the body could not have been there. He is reported to have said, "...She was found lying just where my feet were.."
                            Like PC Long, Richardson saw the spot both before and after. He saw where the body lay from the neighboring yard, so he was not guessing.
                            You have no grounds for disputing what the witness saw, it's not what he was told, nor what he thinks. It's what he saw, and he could see all across the yard.

                            There isn't a lot of room between the steps and the fence in this pic.



                            That door is not going to obscure the body of a woman.


                            Regards, Jon S.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              This is a rough placement of the body, and sufficient witnesses were present to verify this.
                              The door does not obscure the body.



                              And we can see where Richardson claimed to have sat, and his viewpoint over the yard.
                              Regards, Jon S.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                                This is a rough placement of the body, and sufficient witnesses were present to verify this.
                                The door does not obscure the body.



                                And we can see where Richardson claimed to have sat, and his viewpoint over the yard.
                                The door does not obscure the body in the position it is depicted, no. But I trust you agree that it did so when shut? And that Chapman did not come into view until it was sufficiently open?

                                The depictions are of course drawings only, and I doubt that Richardson sat for that portrait. We have no idea whether it was drawn in situ, from memory, from a sketch or from a photo.

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