Richardson's View

[Fisherman]

You never lied to your mother?
I certainly did. So did everyone else I know.

Not me. But I am lying to you.

I for one am very open to the suggestion you make. And thatīs not a lie.

[Joshua Rogan]

It makes sense to me. I'd say John Richardson if he wasn't exactly fearful of his mothers wrath, he certainly didn't like to get on the wrong side of her. If checking the backyard, the stairs, and the cellar was a kind of duty, it's possible he neglected that duty on the morning of the murder. If so it's also possible that he made up his story to save an ear bashing from his mother

If he didn't want to get on the wrong side of his mother, all he had to say was something like "l checked the padlock was ok. I didn't look to the left so I can't say if the body was there or not".
Happy mother, no police involvement, no need to lose pay giving evidence at the inquest, and no need to contradict his own mother's evidence. I'm sure he didn't get an ear-bashing for that.

[Abby Normal]

I'm not even sure Richardson was there at all. And if he was it was likely for 10 seconds tops. His Ma wanted him to check the backyard when he went past on his way to the market. I'm sure he always said he did. But having revisited the 3-volume novel he came up with about the knife & the boot & the rabbit & the carrot I think it's highly possible he didn't. Couldn't be bothered. And then he heard about the body from someone at the market and raced back to see what was what. He arrived just before the doctor. Now what's he going to say? So we hear that he was there. But the body wasn't. Otherwise he's got some explaining to do to his mother and he's like not in the mood for that. The doctor says she was dead 'at least 2 hours and probably more'. And I agree with that. Otherwise Our Boy is killing at a time when people are likely to be around--waking up & going to the privy in an inconvenient fashion--and no way he wants to get caught like a rat in a trap. He's chancy. But not that chancy.

hi chava
ive wondered about this too, but that would mean he lied about being there and placing himself at a murder scene around approx time of death (according to the drs)with a knife no less! if he really skipped checking that morning i find it hard to beleive he would lie placing himself there and as apossible murder suspect all because he was afraid mum would be mad he didnt check the cellar door. shed be releived, not mad, he skipped it and wasnt there.

[Observer]

This makes absolutely no sense.

It makes sense to me. I'd say John Richardson if he wasn't exactly fearful of his mothers wrath, he certainly didn't like to get on the wrong side of her. If checking the backyard, the stairs, and the cellar was a kind of duty, it's possible he neglected that duty on the morning of the murder. If so it's also possible that he made up his story to save an ear bashing from his mother

[Observer]

Have you ever lied to the police, the press and the courts to avoid doing so?

Hutchinson lied to the police, and the press, as did Packer, and Violenia.

[Joshua Rogan]

You never lied to your mother?
I certainly did. So did everyone else I know.

Have you ever lied to the police, the press and the courts to avoid doing so?

[Chava]

This makes absolutely no sense.

You never lied to your mother?
I certainly did. So did everyone else I know.

[Joshua Rogan]

I'm not even sure Richardson was there at all. And if he was it was likely for 10 seconds tops. His Ma wanted him to check the backyard when he went past on his way to the market. I'm sure he always said he did. But having revisited the 3-volume novel he came up with about the knife & the boot & the rabbit & the carrot I think it's highly possible he didn't. Couldn't be bothered. And then he heard about the body from someone at the market and raced back to see what was what. He arrived just before the doctor. Now what's he going to say? So we hear that he was there. But the body wasn't. Otherwise he's got some explaining to do to his mother and he's like not in the mood for that. The doctor says she was dead 'at least 2 hours and probably more'. And I agree with that. Otherwise Our Boy is killing at a time when people are likely to be around--waking up & going to the privy in an inconvenient fashion--and no way he wants to get caught like a rat in a trap. He's chancy. But not that chancy.

This makes absolutely no sense.

[Chava]

I'm not even sure Richardson was there at all. And if he was it was likely for 10 seconds tops. His Ma wanted him to check the backyard when he went past on his way to the market. I'm sure he always said he did. But having revisited the 3-volume novel he came up with about the knife & the boot & the rabbit & the carrot I think it's highly possible he didn't. Couldn't be bothered. And then he heard about the body from someone at the market and raced back to see what was what. He arrived just before the doctor. Now what's he going to say? So we hear that he was there. But the body wasn't. Otherwise he's got some explaining to do to his mother and he's like not in the mood for that. The doctor says she was dead 'at least 2 hours and probably more'. And I agree with that. Otherwise Our Boy is killing at a time when people are likely to be around--waking up & going to the privy in an inconvenient fashion--and no way he wants to get caught like a rat in a trap. He's chancy. But not that chancy.

[Fisherman]

Buck's Row is yours, the double event is mine

So you get two cases and I just the one...? Okay.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Why would I do that if you already done it and can fill me in...?

Buck's Row is yours, the double event is mine

[Michael W Richards]

At 4.45 am John Richardson did not see Annie Chapman's body. So, either the body was there and he failed to see it, or the body wasn't there so he couldn't have seen it.

Forget Cadosch. Following his recent hospital operation he was too busy peeing to make any real sense of his surroundings.

The person who firms up John Richardson's story is the highly suspicious Mrs. Long, who told the inquest her husband was a cart minder and lived in Church Row, told The Times her husband was a park keeper and lived at 198 Church Row, yet the police in their hand-written statement recorded her address as 32 Church Street.

And guess what? She vouched for John Richardson. The subtext of her testimony was, I saw Annie Chapman at 5.30 am, so he couldn't have seen her at 4.45 am.

Dr. Phillips was right about the time of death.

Hi Simon,

I dont think Richardson or Cadosche need be questioned further or discredited, I think that the story with them is that Annie and her killer enter the yard when Richardson goes back inside, they are there when Cadosche comes out to pee, and they make a sound when he comes back to the house to go inside. That noise is a matter of a few feet from where he was. He hears the attack begin. If he starts mutilating immediately that leaves about 45 minutes for Annies splayed open body with internal materials pulled from her abdomen and some organs excised from there, to cool in the morning air. Phillips says essentially that he wouldnt be surprised if he discovered that the TOD estimate he gave was incorrect due to those facts.

That for me seems like an entirely plausible storyline, and it only discredits one witness. Mrs Long. I dont count Phillips as wrong because he tempered that estimate with a caution that he might have allowed too much elapsed time due to certain factors. He couldnt be sure...the body was outdoors on a cool morning in a condition rarely seen by medical examiners. He knew the body cooled quicker based on those factors, he just didnt know how quickly.

[Fisherman]

That is what is said and it's a neat story, but if you ever get around to recreating that scene with Diemschitz, pony cart, and Stride, rather like you recreated Lechmere's walk from Doveton Street to Buck's Row, you will see that it does not quite add up.

Why would I do that if you already done it and can fill me in...?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

It was actually said that of all the cases, Strides was the one perpetrated in the deepest darkness. Diemshutz could only just make out a shape in the gloom and prodded it with his whip, not being able to make out what it was. So that gas jet illumination cannot have been of much help!
Anyhow, Iīm glad to hear that you are of the same sentiment as I am about the daytime ripping.

That is what is said and it's a neat story, but if you ever get around to recreating that scene with Diemschitz, pony cart, and Stride, rather like you recreated Lechmere's walk from Doveton Street to Buck's Row, you will see that it does not quite add up.

[Fisherman]

Herlock Sholmes:

""And all of them unreliable. It’s very easy Fish. TOD estimations have so many variables; some of which Phillips wouldn’t have even been aware of."

I must comment on this passage from your post, Herlock. Yes, in every method of establishing the time of death, even todays methods, there is some unreliability. But the thing here is that Phillips used FOUR parameters that were all in sync with a TOD at least two hours and probably more away from his examination. Once we know that, we must also accept that the fpur parameters mutually support each other, and so regardless of how they each and all have some uncertainty built in, once they ALL point to the same conclusion, the case for an early death is very much supported. If at least one of the parameters had been out of sync (if the body was all warm, if there was no rigor, if the food had only been subjected to very little digestion or if the blood had been softish and wet under the coagulated surface), then an opening would appear for making a case of a late death. But this was never the case, and therefore, the medical evidence weighs tons in pointing to an early TOD.

We must never stray from logic in these matters.