AC and TOD

[lynn cates]

contradiction

Hello Chris. I appreciate that.

It still appears to me that "I cut the boot and tied it up" contradicts "I did not cut the boot and had to get another at work. Mine was too dull." (Sorry for the quotes--those are indirect.)

I see, in Richardson, a witness who wished to be important (like Packer, Hutchinson, and perhaps a few others).

In my humble opinion, he swung open the door, glanced to the right, saw the lock secure, and NEVER looked left and hence missed AC's body.

Thus he could reproach himself with a subsequent, "If only . . ."

Doubtless, Cadosch felt the same about NOT looking over the palings. Of course, Cadosch seems an honest man who does not later emend his story to fit the needs of the case.

The best.
LC

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Hi Lynn!

Here's one more observation. AC left her lodgings shortly after 1:30. She optimistically declared she'd be back soon. She was not.

Now my question is this. When does one throw up the sponge and adopt plan B? If you don't have doss money by 5:30 (after sunup and nearly 4 hours of searching) what's the point?

Exactly. The only 'proof' we have that Annie was killed at dawn is what three very convenient people say they saw and/or heard, all three witness statements not quite ringing true to an extent (aspects of Richardson's sighting being tweaked, Cadosche's brilliantly-time bladder, and Long, who can tell a man is foreign just by looking at the back of his head [though in fairness to her she may have jumped to that conclusion based on how he allegedly said 'will you?']).

Fair enough rigor mortis and cooling may vary depending on the cadaver and its environment, but are we really gonna dismiss a medical examiner's[?] approximate time of death over the hearsay of three semi-unreliable 'witnesses'? Especially when the logical conclusion to what happened to Annie all seems to indicate (without the witness testimony) that she was killed earlier in the night. I think the only reason it's preferrable to believe that the Ripper killed Annie during daylight (however dim it may have been) is due to how daring and dramatic it is; it's another part of Ripper lore.

[Chris]

It still appears to me that "I cut the boot and tied it up" contradicts "I did not cut the boot and had to get another at work. Mine was too dull." (Sorry for the quotes--those are indirect.)

There would be a contradiction there if Richardson had made the second statement. But the point is that he didn't say that, so there isn't a contradiction!

[lynn cates]

crawling

Hello M & P. I am with you.

Have you noticed when Mrs. Long claims to have left home? Now compare with the time she CLAIMS to have arrived at 29 Hanbury.

Question: Are we to assume she was crawling on her hands and knees?

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

try this

Hello Chris. From the coroner's inquest:

"He added that as it was not sharp enough he had borrowed another one at the market."

Not sharp enough for what? Why did he borrow another one?

Either he cut off the piece of leather as he indicated in story 2, in which case another knife is redundant; or, he did not, and so contradicted his dictum that he had.

The best.
LC

[Chris]

Lynn

I did address that above.

[lynn cates]

sic et non

Hello Chris. I take it, then, he did NOT cut off the leather?

The best.
LC

[Chris]

Hello Chris. I take it, then, he did NOT cut off the leather?

As I have already pointed out, the report you yourself quoted and labelled "Story 3" describes his own knife as that "with which he had cut his boot". So obviously there is no implication in that report that he had not cut his boot with that knife.

[lynn cates]

cut off

Hello Chris. Compare:

"After cutting the leather off my boot I tied my boot up[.]"

[Notice the leather in this story is CUT OFF.]

Now, in 3, it is cut. But perhaps he means "cut off." Very well. So now, what use does he have for a second knife?

I think you will agree that the "cut off" is an error? So it is both cut off and not cut off? Is that not a contradiction?

The best.
LC

[Chris]

I think you will agree that the "cut off" is an error?

Why?
__________________________________________________ _

[lynn cates]

error

Hello Chris. Very well. Then the leather was cut off? That's fine.

So when he said he needed another knife, he was in error?

The best.
LC

[Chris]

So when he said he needed another knife, he was in error?

Again, I see no reason to think that. The report doesn't say exactly why he needed another knife, but I can only assume the result of the operation still wasn't satisfactory because of the bluntness of his own knife.

According to other reports, the cutting of the boot that morning at Hanbury Street was already his second attempt to make it comfortable:
"When did you first think your boot wanted cutting? - It hurt my toe, and I cut a piece out the day before, but I found I had not cut enough."

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/eastern_post/easternpost880915.html

[lynn cates]

PC's time

Hello Chris. Very well. Then you are saying the "steps" event was another go at it (after the try a day before)? So, the second time he was successful?

Right. Let's proceed. He sits down on the step; makes a second try with a borrowed knife; he successfully removes the offending piece; ties up the shoe; leaves the yard.

But why, then, did he waste the constable's time by retrieving the dull knife that was unsuccessful?

The best.
LC

[Chris]

Lynn

No - it sounds to me as though the second attempt wasn't entirely successful either, and that he had to borrow a sharper knife and have a third attempt later on.

I'm not sure what you mean about wasting the constable's time. Apparently the coroner simply wanted to inspect the knife that was on Richardson's person when he was in the yard.

Let me try to make a constructive suggestion. What you've quoted (I think) are the reports of the inquest from the Daily Telegraph. But the reports of the inquests in the different papers tend to vary quite a lot in detail. There are quite a lot of different reports in the press section of this site. It may well be that some of the others include additional information that would shed light on Richardson's efforts to make his boot more comfortable, and make it clearer whether there is any real contradiction between what he said at different times. There is also a useful calendar feature that enables you to find all the press reports for a specified date.

[Archaic]

Richardson's Boot-Trimming Testimony

I have to agree with Chris that the discrepancies in Richardson's testimony about trimming his boot are very minor, and perfectly normal as far as witness testimony goes. Look at it from Richardson's point of view: he must have been upset by the gruesome murder, by knowing he'd been so close to it, and by having it happen in his own Mother's backyard. In addition to this he must have felt rather nervous about the fact that he himself was using a knife in that vicinity... Such circumstances would quite naturally unsettle anyone.

My impression of Richardson is that he was an honest man doing his best to assist the police by telling them the truth. It seems to me that in a ghastly murder case like this many people would have been afraid to even admit that they were using a knife anywhere near the place in which the body was found. If Richardson was a dishonest man he could have omitted this fact completely. It's understandable that he felt a little nervous about admitting that he had used a knife in any way that morning.

As for his boots, they were probably cheap work-boots of hard-tanned leather with a bad inner seam that irritated his toe. You need a very sharp knife to cut tanned boot-leather; if you have a dull knife you can saw away at it but won't be able to get a neat edge. I think this is why he had to borrow a sharp knife later to complete the job.

I've always wondered about the time of Annie's death; I tend to think she was killed while it was still quite dark- partly because to kill her inside a fenced yard at an hour when people were getting up for work & could be expected to use the backyard privy seems too reckless even for the Ripper. It's interesting that no one claimed to have seen Annie out soliciting during the late night/early AM hours.

Best regards, Archaic