How Many Victims?

[Tani]

Who do you believe JTR killed?

Why?

Any counter-arguments to your argument?

[Fiver]

Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes - Definitely.
Tabram and Kelly - Probably.
Stride - Possibly.
McKenzie - Weak possibility.

My estimates are based on match to the Rippers signature and timing. McKenzie would rate higher if she'd been killed on a dark night like the others.

[Abby Normal]

c5 definitely. mckenzie and tabram probably

[John Wheat]

The C5, Tabram, Rose Mylett and Ellen Bury.

[I1ariusz]

I think that these victims were killed by the same killer: Nichols, Chapman, Stride, Eddowes and Kelly. It's possible that he killed Tabram and McKenzie. With Tabram even more, cause of such close proximity to other murder sites.

Btw, I don't understand why some researchers think that Kelly is not the Ripper victim. To me that's just irrational: lust killers are very rare (especially of that kind) and with Spitalfields and Whitechapel (where depsite infamy murder was not that often) to have two of that kind, in the same period of time, is almost impossible. Some think that Kelly was killed by a copycat or someone who was trying to stage it as a Ripper victim (which is, considering her destruction, even more silly). Well, to me Ripper title is even more deserving for the Kelly murderer that any others but you can clearly see similarities to Eddowes killing (mutilation of both abnominal areas and face). The only differences are coming from her being younger and killed indoors. I think it this case the Ockham razor is a good principle. The same goes for Stride.

[FrankO]

Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes, Kelly - Definitely.
Tabram - Probably (75/25).
Stride - Possibly (50/50).
MacKenzie - Weak possibility (25/75).

My view is that he was driven by a desire to mutilate, which we clearly see in the first 4.

I think that Tabram may have got the series going, in the sense that she, perhaps, triggered him while he hadn't been going out with murder on his mind, yet. In other words, she said or did something that infuriated him to such an extent that he attacked her in the spur of the moment. That would explain the differences between her and the first 4 on my list.

With Stride I'm on the fence; the timing and, therefore, the number of people that were still up & about was different and the attack itself was different in my view. If it was the Ripper who killed her, then I think he realized he would have no time to mutilate, but killed her anyway.

I'm inclined to think MacKenzie probablly wasn't a Ripper victim, because of the differences in the wounds - both to the throat and the abdomen - and the relatively long gap, but I've not closed the door entirely to that possibility.

[The Rookie Detective]

Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly - certainly
Nichols, McKenzie - almost certainly
Coles, Stride, Tabram- probable
Pinchin St - possible
Mylett - unlikely
Smith- No

[Lewis C]

Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes - definitely
Kelly - 90% chance
Tabram, Stride - 75% chance
McKenzie - 50% chance

[The Baron]

Mckenzie, Tabram, Nichols: 100%
Chapman: 95%
Eddowes, Stride: 90%
Kelly: 85%
Pinchin: 80%



The Baron

[Herlock Sholmes]

Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes, Kelly - 100%
Stride - 40%/50%
Mackenzie - 20%/30%
Tabram - 10%
Coles - 5%
Pinchin - 0%

[Fiver]

Pinchin - 0%

Agreed. The Ripper and the Torsoman were different people. The signatures are completely different.

* The Torsoman did remove organs - sharing that in common with the Ripper.
* The Torsoman disarticulated limbs with a practiced skill - the Ripper did not.
* The Ripper mutilated the victims torsos with frenzied overkill - the Torsoman did not.
* The Ripper posed the victims' bodies flat on their backs with skirts hiked up - the Torsoman did not.
* The Torsoman was skilled at removing heads - the Ripper was a bumbling failure.
* The Ripper left his victims posed bodies where they were sure to be found in short order. The Torso Killer did not. Remains were pitched into rivers and canals where they only surfaced once decomposition was far enough along and were found by pure chance. Other parts were buried. Parts were hidden in shrubbery. The most visible but was the Pinchin Street Torso which was found by pure chance shortly after it was deposited, when it could have lain there unnoticed for days.