The Tumblety Challenge

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stewart,

I hate to disagree with you, but I am actually more intelligent than to believe a Tumblety-as-Ripper-suspect scenario which defies every last vestige of logic and common sense, not to mention the available facts.

Hi Mike,

"The sources for the US papers—Scotland Yard."

Hmmm. Always a worry. Scotland Yard spread more contradictory stories about the Ripper than you can shake a stick at.

How do you know the police suspected him of being the Ripper? How do you know Scotland Yard was convinced they could hold him for at least a year?

Your 14th November arrest warrant only works if FT was given seven days' police bail, and there's more prima facie evidence against this notion than in support of it. All the police bail idea provides is a handy device for FT being out on the streets on the morning of 9th November and thus a viable suspect. Take it away and you're sunk without trace. A lick of proof would be appreciated.

Roger Palmer's argument about Anderson having initiated contact with Crowley in San Francisco ignores the available cablegraph technology of the time.

Of course Scotland Yard had every opportunity to deny the Tumblety story. But they didn't. For whatever reason they wanted people in the US to believe it.

That should tell you something.

By the way, I adore your romantic idea of Tumblety eluding the cops by dint of wearing a hat and cloak.

Pure Jack the Ripper.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Thanks for replying Simon,

Hi Stewart, I hate to disagree with you, but I am actually more intelligent than to believe a Tumblety-as-Ripper-suspect scenario which defies every last vestige of logic and common sense, not to mention the available facts.

Pure anti-Tumblety rhetoric. On December 1, 1888, William Smith, the Deputy Minister of Marine in Ottawa stated to his colleague James Barber of Saint John: "My dear Barber.... Do you recollect Dr. Tumblety who came to St. John about 1860...He is the man who was arrested in London three weeks ago as the Whitechapel murderer...The police have always had their eyes on him every place he went..." This law enforcement official corroborates Chief Inspector Littlechild's comments AND confirms the US newspaper source in Scotland Yard. Tumblety himself even admitted it and he admitted it at a time when he was avoiding publicity for his business. This is far from 'every last vestige of logic and common sense AND available facts.'

"The sources for the US papers—Scotland Yard."

Hmmm. Always a worry. Scotland Yard spread more contradictory stories about the Ripper than you can shake a stick at.

I can't get enough of your theories about this issue. I enjoy every bit of it.

How do you know the police suspected him of being the Ripper? How do you know Scotland Yard was convinced they could hold him for at least a year?

Littlechild, Anderson, Deputy Smith, US papers that actually disregarded him being the killer but still stated Scotland Yard considered him a suspect, Pinkerton, Tumblety himself, and EVEN Charles A. Dunham (you'll like my upcoming article). As to the holding him for a year (I thought I got this from you), a conviction for gross indecence -especially four counts- had a maximum sentence of one year (maybe for each count).

Your 14th November arrest warrant only works if FT was given seven days' police bail, and there's more prima facie evidence against this notion than in support of it. All the police bail idea provides is a handy device for FT being out on the streets on the morning of 9th November and thus a viable suspect. Take it away and you're sunk without trace. A lick of proof would be appreciated.

If Tumblety had an iron-clad alibi, he would have presented it to the New York World reporter. He did the opposite; he stated he was on the streets.

Roger Palmer's argument about Anderson having initiated contact with Crowley in San Francisco ignores the available cablegraph technology of the time.

On the contrary.

Of course Scotland Yard had every opportunity to deny the Tumblety story. But they didn't. For whatever reason they wanted people in the US to believe it.

...because Scotland Yard would have lied if they denied it and would not have been able to hide behind 'plausible deniability'.

That should tell you something. By the way, I adore your romantic idea of Tumblety eluding the cops by dint of wearing a hat and cloak. Pure Jack the Ripper.

My wife would completely disagree with this. She tells me I don't have a romantic bone in my body.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

William Smith, Deputy Minister of Marine and Fisheries, but hardly a law enforcement official, was enlarging upon what he'd read in an Ottawa newspaper the previous month.

If you enjoy my Scotland Yard fables I suggest you sharpen your spade and get digging. There are many treasures to be found.

Keep it up.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike,

William Smith, Deputy Minister of Marine and Fisheries, but hardly a law enforcement official, was enlarging upon what he'd read in an Ottawa newspaper the previous month.

If you enjoy my Scotland Yard fables I suggest you sharpen your spade and get digging. There are many treasures to be found.

Keep it up.

Regards,

Simon

It's funny you should clarify that. In New York State, the conservation officers have greater authority than even the state police.

I'm searching all the time for those treasures and I'm still waiting for the Captain Streeter stuff. You're holding out on me again!

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

Me hold out on you? Heaven forfend.

It's all there to be found.

There were a number of Captain Streeters.

My favourite is Ben Streeter, who fathered loads of kids, was jailed for forgery, and at the age of 92 fell down drunk, dying at the foot of a flight of stairs leading from the Erie railroad to a bar.

What a way to go.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike,

Me hold out on you? Heaven forfend.

It's all there to be found.

There were a number of Captain Streeters.

My favourite is Ben Streeter, who fathered loads of kids, was jailed for forgery, and at the age of 92 fell down drunk, dying at the foot of a flight of stairs leading from the Erie railroad to a bar.

What a way to go.

Regards,

Simon

Just like that Simon. Let's see... George Lusk...remodeled the Lyceum Theatre...theatre designer...Simon Wood...

Simon, you know darn well you've been in the Lyceum Theatre haven't you!

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

Sorry to say, I've never set foot in the Lyceum Theatre.

Many others, but not the Lyceum.

You must have me confused with another impresario.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Littlechild stated, "but his feelings toward women were remarkable and bitter in the extreme, a fact on record".

[Pinkerton]: “People familiar with the history of the man always talked of him as a brute, and as brutal in his actions. He was known as a thorough woman-hater ...”

Pinkerton was quoted on November 20th in Chicago only a day or two after those in the US heard about Tumblety being suspected of the Whitechapel crimes and only four days after Tumblety posted bail. He seems to be the very first person publically suggesting his woman-hater feelings as a motive. We also know Pinkerton had a working relationship with Scotland Yard headquarters IN 1888. It's interesting that 'bitter in the extreme' and 'thorough' have similar connotations.

Sincerely,
Mike

[mklhawley]

Earlier I pointed out that Scotland Yard never told anyone, especially US newspaper reporters stationed in London, that Tumblety was NOT a JTR suspect. Something even more telling is what Scotland Yard told New York City Chief Inspector of the Detective Bureau, Inspector Byrnes. Scotland Yard clearly contacted Inspector Byrnes in late November 1888 that Francis Tumblety had jumped bail and was on his way to New York City with an estimated time of arrival of December 3, 1888, as evidence by Byrnes assigning detectives to wait for his arrival at the docks. Notice what Inspector Byrnes stated to the New York World:


New York World (U.S.A.), 4 December 1888
Inspector Byrnes was asked what his object in shadowing Twomblety. "I simply wanted to put a tag on him." he replied, "so that we can tell where he is. Of course, he cannot be arrested, for there is no proof in his complicity in the Whitechapel murders, and the crime for which he was under bond in London is not extaditable."


Inspector Byrnes publically scoffed at the idea of Tumblety being Jack the Ripper. This would have been the perfect time for him to tell the reporter, "Scotland Yard informed me that he was not a suspect in the Whitechapel killings," but he did not. His statement clearly shows that Scotland Yard told him he was a suspect, but could only be arrested for gross indecency in order to hold him.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

I would have liked Inspector Byrnes.

All reasonable people scoff at the idea of FT having been Jack the Ripper.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Simon,

What is this? You post and the number of views to this thread skyrockets. I'm telling you; keep on posting.

Mike

...and I never did like that Byrnes guy anyway.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

No problem.

I'm your man as long as you keep posting the same old Tumblety rubbish.

Regards,

Simon

[mklhawley]

Earlier I pointed out that Scotland Yard never told anyone, especially US newspaper reporters stationed in London, that Tumblety was NOT a JTR suspect. Something even more telling is what Scotland Yard told New York City Chief Inspector of the Detective Bureau, Inspector Byrnes. Scotland Yard clearly contacted Inspector Byrnes in late November 1888 that Francis Tumblety had jumped bail and was on his way to New York City with an estimated time of arrival of December 3, 1888, as evidence by Byrnes assigning detectives to wait for his arrival at the docks. Notice what Inspector Byrnes stated to the New York World:


New York World (U.S.A.), 4 December 1888
Inspector Byrnes was asked what his object in shadowing Twomblety. "I simply wanted to put a tag on him." he replied, "so that we can tell where he is. Of course, he cannot be arrested, for there is no proof in his complicity in the Whitechapel murders, and the crime for which he was under bond in London is not extaditable."


Inspector Byrnes publically scoffed at the idea of Tumblety being Jack the Ripper. This would have been the perfect time for him to tell the reporter, "Scotland Yard informed me that he was not a suspect in the Whitechapel killings," but he did not. His statement clearly shows that Scotland Yard told him he was a suspect, but could only be arrested for gross indecency in order to hold him.

Yes, I agree with you Simon, truth does smell of rubbish sometimes. As the above quote demonstrates, Byrnes clearly new Dr. T was a suspect of theirs.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

Inspector Byrnes stated that " . . . there is no proof in his [Tumblety's] complicity in the Whitechapel murders . . ."

How could he have said that unless he had been told by someone who actually knew?

Regards,

Simon

[Jonathan H]

That's easy, Simon.

Byrnes was the corrupt head of a notoriously corrupt police force.

He protected a fellow Irish-American without breaking a sweat.

He talks more like a brief than a cop: eg. no proof to trouble my client.

Plus once he knew that Scotland yard had nothing they could charge Tumblety with, he would want to reassure his own constituents that they had nothing to worry about from the doctor -- that he, the police chief, was not letting them down.

To be fair to Byrnes, we do not know he did not say this, not only to protect his own rep, but also to put Tumblety under a false sense of security.