The 'argument AGAINST Tumblety' debate thread

[mklhawley]

There are other examples of Tumblety's violence but here's the last one in his Rap sheet:
1890 (December) Washington – arrested and charged with vicious “assault” - striking a man with the metal top of his walking stick so hard that his “cheekbone was revealed through the skin”. Tumblety is aged 60 by this time. When searched, police discover that Tumblety has thousands of dollars worth of diamond jewellery on his person along with several hundred dollars in cash. Charges dropped. Police explain that the man Tumblety assaulted was even “more suspicious a character” than Tumblety.
This is the last known arrest on record. (from Riordan's book)
If this is how vicious Tumblety was in his 60s, then how vicious or violent was he when he was young?

Hi Siobhan,

Since I wrote that I created a thread on Francis Tumblety as an aggressive narcissist. Your last example fits the profile. Check it out.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4561

[Siobhan Patricia Mulcahy]

Tumblety was violent

...all the above said, I believe the best evidence against Tumblety is that there is no evidence of him being violent at all.

Sincerely,

Mike

There are other examples of Tumblety's violence but here's the last one in his Rap sheet:
1890 (December) Washington – arrested and charged with vicious “assault” - striking a man with the metal top of his walking stick so hard that his “cheekbone was revealed through the skin”. Tumblety is aged 60 by this time. When searched, police discover that Tumblety has thousands of dollars worth of diamond jewellery on his person along with several hundred dollars in cash. Charges dropped. Police explain that the man Tumblety assaulted was even “more suspicious a character” than Tumblety.
This is the last known arrest on record. (from Riordan's book)
If this is how vicious Tumblety was in his 60s, then how vicious or violent was he when he was young?

[The Grave Maurice]

Me? No, I think he's out of the running. But he's certainly a fascinating character.

[GregBaron]

One Tumbler too many..........

Yes Grave M. I find that stache hard to go unremarked upon..... in Whitechapel especially............but it was truly the era of the stache so I imagine competitors abounded.........as for the 6 foot thing........I've heard the Tumbler(nice huh!) described as anywhere from 5'10" to 6'2"...........now who knows? Do we have his doctor's physical records? Obviously not, not sure where these figures come from except from speculation of people who witnessed him.....6'2" in 1888 was like a giant............anyway, if you think it's really a good read and one I should pick up before any other.........I'll consider it...........do you still believe this flamboyant gay charlatan a viable candidate...........?

Greg

[The Grave Maurice]

Well, yeah, maybe. But remember that Tumblety was something over 6 feet tall, rather more than any of the witnesses described. And if you could see the larger photo in Riordan's book, his 'stache is a real beauty. I don't see how any witness could have missed that. Anyway, you really should buy the book: it explains a great deal about Tumblety's likely candidacy as JtR.

[GregBaron]

Photo wow..........

Thanks Grave Maurice,

Is that really the photo? He's a dandy all right.........I can't see him as Astrakhan(sp?) man or JtR for that matter or broad shoulders or the shabby genteel of Mrs. Long..................funny he does look like someone I know though...............a charlatan in his own right......thanks again.......now we need some more photos......Hutchinson would be good..........


Greg

[The Grave Maurice]

Actually, the picture is on the cover.

[The Grave Maurice]

Again this FT photo is mentioned. Can someone point me to it?

I was hoping someone more knowledgeable would answer your question, Greg. On the other hand, that's never stopped me before. I thought that the new FT photo had appeared on these boards but, if it did, I can't find it. I also believe that it appeared in an issue of Ripperologist, but I can't remember which one. Probably the easiest way for you to see it is to buy a copy of Timothy Riordan's excellent book Prince of Quacks, available from Amazon.

[GregBaron]

Photo?

Again this FT photo is mentioned. Can someone point me to it? Also, I suppose there are those who believe Astrakan man could be Tumblety. Could he really travel around Whitechapel so flamboyantly when attempting to avoid suspicion or could it be another thumb in the eye of authorities? I noticed that newspaper article had someone say he had small hands and feet! A large man with small hands and feet. I believe JtR was strong(with powerful hands and forearms) and it just seems this gay dandy, although large, was probably a wimp as we might say here in the States. Just an observation. No doubt a very intriguing character and probably a narcissist to the extreme.......yes the type of personality of serial killers...........but all those points mentioned earlier are hard to overcome....I suppose this well dressed handsome charmer though could easily put these poor prostitutes at ease.......endless speculation with this mystery man.............it certainly seems an abortionist work is possible in the JtR mutilations.......................Thoughts?

Greg

[The Grave Maurice]

Only the questionable word of Colonel Dunham. Have a look at this thread.

[nugnug]

Tumbelty

is there any proof to back up the claim that he collected womans organs

[DVV]

Tumblety was the only man who could unlock Mary's door with his moustache.

Who can show me a better suspect ?

Amitiés,
David

[ditlew]

Hi All,

I think that more or less all the arguments for Tumblety not being the Jack can be meet/countered, so all we end up with is the usual question is he a likely suspect or not. I don't think so but I have no problem with people thinking that he is.

Best Regards,
Ditlew

[Uncle Jack]

A cropped version of that photo can be found on Google image search so I don't think any copyright has been infringed and even if it was, I am sure te originator would not mind it being used on a Jack the Ripper website.......

[mklhawley]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for that but does force and arms necessarily mean violence? I was under the impression that it could also imply coercion but I could be wrong. Does anybody know the exact definition as it applied in Tumblety's case?

c.d.

Good point c.d. I am certainly guilty of being liberal with the violent word in order to emphasize a point.

Mike