Tumblety Motive & Cap'n Jack is Right

[mklhawley]

If I'm correct, Michael, the statistics to which you refer are 'self reported' and have no evidentiary corroboration whatever. I strongly suspect that they stem from the claim made by many offenders that they were the victims of childhood sexual abuse. Again, given that such claims are unsupported by independent evidence, they have to be treated with caution.

As for the notion that Tumblety had in his younger days been a womaniser, I seem to recall similar stories concerning Rock Hudson.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

Garry and JTR,

Good points. I am still intrigued that if the 46% statistic holds true, JTR (if a serial killer) may himself have had homosexual experiences.

Mike

[Garry Wroe]

If I'm correct, Michael, the statistics to which you refer are 'self reported' and have no evidentiary corroboration whatever. I strongly suspect that they stem from the claim made by many offenders that they were the victims of childhood sexual abuse. Again, given that such claims are unsupported by independent evidence, they have to be treated with caution.

As for the notion that Tumblety had in his younger days been a womaniser, I seem to recall similar stories concerning Rock Hudson.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[JTRSickert]

MK,

One thing though, despite the gossip that has been presented regarding Tumblety's attraction to women, his relationships with men are well-documented and there is actual evidence regarding his relationships with men (and don't forget, the men that Tumblety was arrested with consorting with were discribed as being "young men" and when he was in Liverpool, he was also known to associate with men who were considerably younger than he was; so, this could be implied that he may have had a taste for adolescent boys). Also, being labeled a womanizer back in those days was considered a serious social scandal, just as badly as rumors of homosexuality. So, it is possible that the gossip of his fraternizing with multiple women could also have been made up to tarnish is image.

Also, while there is verifiable proof of his homosexual activities, we have not uncovered any concrete evidence of his attraction to women. Example, no marriage license, no evidence he ever fathered a child, etc.

[mklhawley]

Greetings all,

Recent evidence suggests Cap’n Jack hit the nail on the head about Francis Tumblety, yet dollars to donuts he’ll place me in banana status again after reading my argument. I could be guilty of cherry picking the evidence, but Cap’n Jack’s claim appears to fit a highly plausible Tumblety motive. First, it seems we all agree that if Francis Tumblety were Jack the Ripper, then a motive for him to have perpetrated such heinous murders must be exceptionally obvious (since he has no confirmed history of such violent behavior). The only possible motive suggested so far that fits the bill is he being a woman-hater. A convincing counter-argument to this is that he was a homosexual and homosexual serial killers tend to focus upon males, regardless if he was a woman-hater or not. My contention is that Tumblety was not a homosexual (as revealed to me by Cap’n Jack) and that his anger/aggression was not directed at women in general, but at prostitutes.

Evidence for Tumblety actually being a heterosexual comes from numerous newspaper articles in his early years. These articles commented upon how the young ladies were excited about his arrival to their particular city and that Tumblety was a “womaniser”. Now, Tumblety was certainly arrested in November 1888 twice for aggressive homosexual activity (gross indecency), which is the only strong (but convincing) piece of evidence to suggest he was a homosexual. To reinforce this perception of his sexual orientation was Colonel Dunham’s interview in early December 1888, but we now know he was a scam artist.

If we look at Tumblety’s gross indecency arrests in light of recent data collected on serial killers, his covert homosexual activities just might be mere normal heterosexual serial killer experiences. As I’ve stated on an earlier thread, the proportion of serial killers who are known to have had homosexual experiences is over 43%! (Statistical analysis of the proportion of homosexuality among serial killers, with a listing of prominent GLBT/homosexual serial killers). If correct, this means there is nearly a 50/50 chance that JTR engaged in homosexual activities, just as Tumblety did. Also, keep in mind Tumblety engaged in these activities in the very same location as the Whitechapel murders.

So, why would he kill prostitutes? The match between Francis Tumblety and the traits of an aggressive narcissist is uncanny. Recall that the Hare Psychopathy checklist for an aggressive narcissist is as follows: Glibness/superficial charm, Grandiose sense of self-worth, Pathological lying, Cunning/manipulative, Lack of remorse or guilt, Shallow affect (expressing emotions deceptively), Callous/lack of empathy, Failure to accept responsibility for own actions. Each one fits Tumblety like a glove.

The following are general motives for serial killers: visionary (voices told me to do it), mission-oriented (hate men, women, prostitutes, etc.), hedonistic (lust, for the thrill, for comfort/profit), and power. This leads to the possible anger/retaliatory motive of Tumblety against prostitutes. What if this aggressive narcissist contracted gonorrhea or another sexually transmitted disease (STD) from a prostitute prior to the Whitechapel murders and is now in retaliatory mode (mission-oriented motive)? This seems to fit perfectly for an aggressive narcissist retaliating without remorse.

Is there any evidence of Tumblety having some type of STD? Recall that Tumblety died in 1903 due to heart complications, which is one of the symptoms of certain STDs, such as syphilis and gonorrhea. Others have suggested Dr. T may have had STD, so I am not making this up. We also know that for years Tumblety visited places like Hot Springs, Arkansas. At the time, the hot springs were well known for medicinal purposes, especially for ailments that were incurable at the time.

To me, this conforms well to all of the evidence and it eliminates the homosexual issue entirely, especially because 46% of all serial killers have homosexual experiences.

Just thinkin’.

Sincerely,

Michael Hawley