Critiquing arguments against Tumblety, or Francis the Ripper

[Cap'n Jack]

Is there Irish contraction in the 'From Hell' letter?
It is merely the opinion of a few who read the 'sir' as 'sor', and upon this much wild speculation, theorising and nonsense is built.
I've been at this for years now, and I know just how the boys construct a house of cards... and this is a house of cards, which when you start pulling at one card the whole marvelous edifice cames atumblety down.
Ignoring proven facts in such a case as this does the case no good whatsoever.
As I've said the myth of Inspector Andrews pursuit of Tumblety across the great pond is just that, but time and time again we hear this myth propogated simply because it carries weight with the issuer.
Another fact that is gracefully ignored by all concerned is that Tumblety had a hell of a reputation when younger as a 'womaniser'. I found these reports over three years ago in early American newspapers, but they have been disgracefully ignored since then.
Why?
Well I'll tell you why... because it does not sit well with those who would have their Tumblety as a 'woman-hater' and errant collector of their privy parts.
The list is endless and inexhaustible. Even his arrest and detention for the Whitechapel Murders is the very stuff of myth and legend. Efforts have been made to crucify the poor old fool for asking whether the woman he intended to abort was Protestant or Catholic... forsooth the Fenian swine etc etc. He was just doing what any good doctor would do as he knew that it was illegal and immoral for a Catholic to carry out such an act.
Recently we have discovered that Tumblety at the time of his English visit was possessed of immense wealth, so why should he go to two men for his bail money?
And again we still see the sinister efforts to magnify Tumblety's offences against young men into some kind of vicious and violent assault, when all he was doing was what a thousand men a day do today. Paying for sex.
There is a creeping endeavour here to try and use Tumblety in the same way that Oscar Wilde was used not long after, but many forget that Oscar was offered the chance to flee to France before his trial. He chose not to.
I would suggest that Tumblety was given the same option, and you could hear the mad rush of his magnificent moustachios across the English Channel.

[mklhawley]

Is there Irish contraction in the 'From Hell' letter?
It is merely the opinion of a few who read the 'sir' as 'sor', and upon this much wild speculation, theorising and nonsense is built.
I've been at this for years now, and I know just how the boys construct a house of cards... and this is a house of cards, which when you start pulling at one card the whole marvelous edifice cames atumblety down.
Ignoring proven facts in such a case as this does the case no good whatsoever.
As I've said the myth of Inspector Andrews pursuit of Tumblety across the great pond is just that, but time and time again we hear this myth propogated simply because it carries weight with the issuer.
Another fact that is gracefully ignored by all concerned is that Tumblety had a hell of a reputation when younger as a 'womaniser'. I found these reports over three years ago in early American newspapers, but they have been disgracefully ignored since then.
Why?
Well I'll tell you why... because it does not sit well with those who would have their Tumblety as a 'woman-hater' and errant collector of their privy parts.
The list is endless and inexhaustible. Even his arrest and detention for the Whitechapel Murders is the very stuff of myth and legend. Efforts have been made to crucify the poor old fool for asking whether the woman he intended to abort was Protestant or Catholic... forsooth the Fenian swine etc etc. He was just doing what any good doctor would do as he knew that it was illegal and immoral for a Catholic to carry out such an act.
Recently we have discovered that Tumblety at the time of his English visit was possessed of immense wealth, so why should he go to two men for his bail money?
And again we still see the sinister efforts to magnify Tumblety's offences against young men into some kind of vicious and violent assault, when all he was doing was what a thousand men a day do today. Paying for sex.
There is a creeping endeavour here to try and use Tumblety in the same way that Oscar Wilde was used not long after, but many forget that Oscar was offered the chance to flee to France before his trial. He chose not to.
I would suggest that Tumblety was given the same option, and you could hear the mad rush of his magnificent moustachios across the English Channel.

"...edifice cames atumblety down" - Now, that is funny!

Capt'n Jack,

I notice you use a lot of inflamatory adjectives and adverbs, such as "sinister". These responses are emotional, which means they come from your limbic system, which is the same location of the brain that pride, bias, and denial come from. This truly does suggest all of your experience and background is being clouded by emotional responses. I like some of your ideas, but I say again, they now come an emotional price tag of bias. This is why flowery and angry language is rejected in peer reviewed literature.

Mike

[Cap'n Jack]

'This is why flowery and angry language is rejected in peer reviewed literature.'

I do not think that enough flowery and angry language can ever be used when presenting or studying this case; and the only peer I see is pointing out to sea.

[Natalie Severn]

"...edifice cames atumblety down" - Now, that is funny!

Capt'n Jack,

I like some of your ideas, but I say again, they now come an emotional price tag of bias. This is why flowery and angry language is rejected in peer reviewed literature.

Mike

Mike.I sincerely hope you are not being serious above? If you are then presumably the beautiful flowery language of Shakespeare would be rejected too by this " peer reviewed literature"? Or Martin Luther King"s "I have a dream"---which was surely one of the most flowery speeches ever and certainly of the last 50 years? Rejected because of bias?

Stay real Mike and we will listen to you.
Cheers

[mklhawley]

'This is why flowery and angry language is rejected in peer reviewed literature.'

I do not think that enough flowery and angry language can ever be used when presenting or studying this case; and the only peer I see is pointing out to sea.

Now, I would like to challenge you on a couple of comments. Your Irish contractions comment about the From Hell letter has no meat, just opinions. A priori methodologies are required in such a cold case as this, because there is so little evidence. My point: We must look for patterns, and the Irish pattern in the From Hell letter is more meat than mere opinions from a salty ripperologist. Where is your evidence to reject this pattern?

Archaic clearly found an article that discusses Tumblety and his woman-hater feelings prior to Colonel Dunham's interview. This is corroborated by the Littlechild interview. This points to one thing, him being a woman-hater was common knowledge based upon events other than Dunham's interview. Your mistake is suggesting those that who consider Tumblety as a serious suspect use this as the cornerstone argument. No, it is merely a possible motive. I personally see multiple possible motives a narcissistic Tumblety could have been guided by, IF he were JTR.

Sincerely,

Mike

[mklhawley]

Now, I would like to challenge you on a couple of comments. Your Irish contractions comment about the From Hell letter has no meat, just opinions. A priori methodologies are required in such a cold case as this, because there is so little evidence. My point: We must look for patterns, and the Irish pattern in the From Hell letter is more meat than mere opinions from a salty ripperologist. Where is your evidence to reject this pattern?

Archaic clearly found an article that discusses Tumblety and his woman-hater feelings prior to Colonel Dunham's interview. This is corroborated by the Littlechild interview. This points to one thing, him being a woman-hater was common knowledge based upon events other than Dunham's interview. Your mistake is suggesting those that who consider Tumblety as a serious suspect use this as the cornerstone argument. No, it is merely a possible motive. I personally see multiple possible motives a narcissistic Tumblety could have been guided by, IF he were JTR.

Sincerely,

Mike

Hi Natalie,

I don't think you understand what I mean by flowery language. I am talking about inflamatory language designed to elicit an emotional response. Take a serious look at peer reviewed literature and you will find "content dense" paragraphs that only fellow experts can easily glean through. They don't have time to be flowery. Their concern is do conclusions unavoidably follow from the facts? The purpose of peer review is objectivity, and "flowery" truly does come from the heart, or "subjectivity". Flowery language certainly has its place in life, especially from people like Shakespeare, but sadly Shakespearian language is nonexistent in science. Adding flowery language in a nonfiction book may help sell the book, but it certainly does not get one closer to the truth. Comments like "sinister" have no place in a forum for discovering truth.

[Natalie Severn]

What events other than Colonel Dunham"s interview?Can you spell them out please Mike.Thanks

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Natalie,

I don't think you understand what I mean by flowery language. I am talking about inflamatory language designed to elicit an emotional response. Take a serious look at peer reviewed literature and you will find "content dense" paragraphs that only fellow experts can easily glean through. They don't have time to be flowery. Their concern is do conclusions unavoidably follow from the facts? The purpose of peer review is objectivity, and "flowery" truly does come from the heart, or "subjectivity". Flowery language certainly has its place in life, especially from people like Shakespeare, but sadly Shakespearian language is nonexistent in science. Adding flowery language in a nonfiction book may help sell the book, but it certainly does not get one closer to the truth. Comments like "sinister" have no place in a forum for discovering truth.

Sad indeed Mike since Shakespeare seemed to understand the world at a glance rather than needing to employ a whole lot of spurious scientific jargon in a misguided attempt to enlighten us.
The English language,which is Shakespeare"s language, is richer than any other in terms of its homonyms alone.Lets use it to the full,as Shakespeare certainly did, for it can express the finest nuances and subtleties of meaning of any concept or piece of information you may wish.

[Archaic]

Book On Colonel Dunham

Hi, folks.

I'm not sure if others are aware of this book, but I thought it might be helpful to those interested in Colonel Dunham.

It's called 'The Devil's Game: The Civil War Intrigues of Colonel Durham'. (2004)

I haven't read it myself but it looks interesting.

Here's a link to it on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0252028902

Best regards, Archaic

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

The cops were constrained in their dealings with the press by strictures laid down by former Commissioner Howard Vincent [A Police Code, and Manual of the Criminal Law, 1881]—

"Police must not on any account give any information whatever to gentlemen connected with the press, relative to matters within police knowledge, or relative to duties to be performed or orders received, or communicate in any manner, either directly or indirectly, with editors, or reporters of newspapers, on any matter connected with the public service, without express and special authority . . . The slightest deviation from this rule may completely frustrate the ends of justice, and defeat the endeavor of superior officers to advance the welfare of the public service. Individual merit will be invariably recognized in due course, but officers, who without authority give publicity to discoveries, tending to produce sensation and alarm, show themselves wholly unworthy of their posts."

Read and weep. During the WM all manner of spurious leads, arrests and evidence were being leaked to the press. News-management is not a wholly modern phenomenon. Never [to my knowledge] in the history of criminal goings-on has a person jumped bail and fled across the Atlantic under an assumed name in such a highly-orchestrated fanfare of detailed publicity and been met by a posse of newsmen, a simple fact which negates any notion of Tumblety attempting to "disappear".

At least three Scotland Yard detectives [one retired] were in North America at the time of Tumblety's arrival in New York on 2nd December. A fourth Scotland Yard detective arrived in New York on 6th December, but none of them had any interest in Tumblety either as a bail-jumper or Ripper suspect. Scotland Yard had bigger fish to fry. And at the time the press was announcing Inspector Walter Andrews' arrival in New York from Canada in pursuit of Jack the Ripper, the good detective was four or five hundred miles to the north. His exact location is not within my gift to reveal. It was discovered by Wolf Vanderlinden and is contained in an as yet unpublished article, a copy of which he kindly sent me and which I hope earns him serious kudos.

Finally, Mike, to champion Tumblety as a viable suspect and throw down a gauntlet, it is wise to first make certain you're holding something substantial in your hand. Tumblety was part and parcel of a much larger scenario, and any suggestion that he was involved in the Whitechapel murders or, more specifically, the frankly bogus "From Hell" letter and its accompanying body part is pure pie in the sky.

On a personal note, may I say to Stewart Evans that there is absolutely no reason for him to be in the least defensive about his groundbreaking 1995 Tumblety book written with Paul Gainey. Time moves on, new facts emerge and recorded history evolves, which is exactly how things should be when trying to get at the truth. With the advent of the internet and digital archiving we know more today about the Tumblety saga than could possibly have been known in 1995, but without Stewart and Paul's book we might never have arrived in such a privileged position.

Here's to evolution.

Regards,

Simon

[Cap'n Jack]

'Here's to evolution.'

Amen, Simon, nicely said.
I discovered Inspector Andrew's whereabouts at that crucial time about two years ago, for he gave an interview to the press, or better said a member of the Canadian police gave an interview on his behalf. I do believe I worked it out that he was a 5 hour railway journey away from NYC the whole time he was in Canada; and the shipping news confirms that he could not have used NYC as a returning port.
So I do not believe Wolf Vanderline's information is privy at all, unless of course he has found something that I missed.
I doubt it said the monkey as he peed on the fire.

[Simon Wood]

Hi AP,

You may well be right, but Wolf sent the information to me in confidence so I feel it is for him to divulge. I have no wish to steal his thunder.

Regards,

Simon

[Cap'n Jack]

Quite right, Simon. Time will tell.

I'm in perfect agreement here with Natalie concerning the useage of 'flowery' language, as I regard Mike's comments on the subject to be oh so slightly snobbish, and reeking of a fair stink of exclusivitivity, which I abhor and detest, for this is the subject of the common man, and woman, for it is those we discuss here, me and you, and Jack, and his victims.
It is a human situation that requires sensible and adequate emotion, not the cold cutting knife of academic ability and nonsensical debate about 'peer' reviews and the like.
Mike can take his peer review and jump into the sea with it as far as I am concerned.

[mklhawley]

Quite right, Simon. Time will tell.

I'm in perfect agreement here with Natalie concerning the useage of 'flowery' language, as I regard Mike's comments on the subject to be oh so slightly snobbish, and reeking of a fair stink of exclusivitivity, which I abhor and detest, for this is the subject of the common man, and woman, for it is those we discuss here, me and you, and Jack, and his victims.
It is a human situation that requires sensible and adequate emotion, not the cold cutting knife of academic ability and nonsensical debate about 'peer' reviews and the like.
Mike can take his peer review and jump into the sea with it as far as I am concerned.

Hi Simon,

If it is true that Scotland Yard arrested Tumblety the second time on a lesser charge other than the murders, but were still interested in his connection to the murders (as evidenced by Tumblety’s comments, etc), it clearly shows they did not have enough evidence to hold him for those murders much less extradite him from another country. I don’t think following him in the streets of NYC would do much to further their investigation. Now, to suggest the Scotland Yard official not hanging out in NYC is clear evidence that Tumblety was lesser of a suspect for the Whitechapel murders does not fit. I do see them coming to NYC to demonstrate to the NYC authorities that this guy deserves some attention. How could a Scotland Yard official benefit from following Tumblety in the streets of NYC? What evidence could be gathered?

“Finally, Mike, to champion Tumblety as a viable suspect and throw down a gauntlet, it is wise to first make certain you're holding something substantial in your hand. Tumblety was part and parcel of a much larger scenario, and any suggestion that he was involved in the Whitechapel murders or, more specifically, the frankly bogus "From Hell" letter and its accompanying body part is pure pie in the sky.”

This comment suggests I do not have anything substantial, and in your response there is nothing to counter any of my points I brought up. I believe I have certainly brought a few things substantial to counter these arguments, and some of the private comments I’ve received attest to this. Keep in mind; many ripperologists are rejecting Tumblety on other reasons as well, such as his height, age, size of mustache, etc. I would love your comments on those, too.

You have discussed only one issue and I see it irrelevant to Tumblety’s suspect status. When you state, “It is wise to…” suggests you are wiser than I, so please show me some. I would certainly love see your evidence to suggest the From Hell letter is bogus.


Sincerely,

Mike

[mklhawley]

Quite right, Simon. Time will tell.

I'm in perfect agreement here with Natalie concerning the useage of 'flowery' language, as I regard Mike's comments on the subject to be oh so slightly snobbish, and reeking of a fair stink of exclusivitivity, which I abhor and detest, for this is the subject of the common man, and woman, for it is those we discuss here, me and you, and Jack, and his victims.
It is a human situation that requires sensible and adequate emotion, not the cold cutting knife of academic ability and nonsensical debate about 'peer' reviews and the like.
Mike can take his peer review and jump into the sea with it as far as I am concerned.

Cap'n Jack,

You are in desparate need of a hug.

Mike