Tumblety & Carrie Brown .6 Miles Apart!

[mklhawley]

Hello,

I need some confirmation. According to Francis Tumblety, he lived for a while at 109 East 9th Street, New York, on July 22, 1891. Carrie Brown was a prostitute out of 29 Bleecker St, NY, and was murdered in April 1891. According to MapQuest, 109 East 9th St is only .6 miles away from 29 Bleecker St! The East River Hotel on the corner of Water St and Catherine St is only 1.75 miles from Tumblety's residence.

So, Tumblety was as Whitechapel during the murders, and now Tumblety, himself, is walking distance from Carrie Brown. Is that a coincidence or what!

I would love people to double-check this.

Sincerely,

Mike

[Howard Brown]

According to Francis Tumblety, he lived for a while at 109 East 9th Street, New York, on July 22, 1891.
Carrie Brown was a prostitute out of 29 Bleecker St, NY, and was murdered in April 1891......... from poster above

Did Tumblety live on 9th Street before her murder in late April of 1891 ?

Its a quarter of a year between Brown's murder in April and July 22nd.

[corey123]

Unrelated

Mike,

Sorry to interupt but did you find anything interesting of that police report of Carrie Brown?? If so Please tell me, and also I have a new theory all together for the case, not pointing to any suspect but just to the victemology.. maybe, if your interested I can Pm you the theory of just post it on here and you can see what its worth.

yours truly

[paynej49]

Carrie Brown

Mike,

Sorry to interupt but did you find anything interesting of that police report of Carrie Brown?? If so Please tell me, and also I have a new theory all together for the case, not pointing to any suspect but just to the victemology.. maybe, if your interested I can Pm you the theory of just post it on here and you can see what its worth.

yours truly

Oh please.
By all means post it here so that we all can read it!
Cordially, Jon Dinerstein

[corey123]

please specify

My victemology or the report?

yours truly

[jmenges]

On or around April 17th, 1891 Tumblety was a victim of robbery in Hot Springs, Arkansas where he was a frequent vacationer.

JM

[Howard Brown]

Precisely my point JMenges.

Brown was killed on April 23rd leaving Tumblety only a week to get back from Arkansas to (theoretically) have been in the area where she was killed...Thanks for the date of the Hot Springs theft. Trying to do 5 things at once prevented me from giving the date the first time.

[mklhawley]

Corey,

Sorry for the delay in response. I had to pick up one of my sons from gymnastics. It's because of your Carrie Brown police report that this all started. As I was searching for which police precinct on the document, I noticed that Brown was murdered late April, but she was buried in August. That certainly seemed strange.

I have been simultaneously reading, "A sketch of the Life of Francis Tumblety" (1893), an autobiography. Tumblety certainly had a hidden agenda to hide his nefarious side. I discovered this letter in the book:

From the New York Herald, July 22, 1891.

Here’s Generosity for You.
Dr. Francis Tumblety, of No. 109 East Ninth street, sent the Herald yesterday his check for %323.75, with the following letter, which is its own best expounder:
To the Editor of the Herald:-
Returning from Long Branch this morning I read an account in the brilliant New York Herald of an outrage about to be perpetrated on an American stowaway named Frank Sherman. His mother, being a widow, has my sympathy, and I am willing to defray his expenses, including his passage and trip back to his mother.
July 21, 1891. FRANCIS TUMBLETY, M. D.

I then mapquested this address with the address of where Carrie Brown worked as a prostitute and where she was killed.

I would like to know more about the "on or around" April 17 with the victimology report. It is quite the coincidence that Tumblety was in Whitechapel during all of the C5 murders and then his residence was walking distance to Carrie's place of prostitution.

Thanks so much for the help Corey.

Mike

[jmenges]

I would like to know more about the "on or around" April 17 with the victimology report. It is quite the coincidence that Tumblety was in Whitechapel during all of the C5 murders and then his residence was walking distance to Carrie's place of prostitution.

There is no evidence that Tumblety "was in Whitechapel during all of the C5 murders" and there is no evidence that "his residence was walking distance to Carrie's place of prostitution" in April of 1891. All the evidence points to Tumblety being 1,300 miles away in Hot Springs, Arkansas in April 1891. That's as close as we can get. He was robbed there on April 17th and the press was still reporting his case on the 19th.

JM

[mklhawley]

JM,

According to Stewart Evans, Tumblety went to the Whitechapel district in June of 1888, and Scotland Yard arrested him just after the last C5 murder. Tumblety himself admits it. Also, the letter in Tumbelty's residence (as per Tumblety is only .6 miles from 29 Bleecker St. To say there is no evidence (hard or circumstantial) points only to one thing, a human psychological battle between accommodation and assimilation. Once someone is convinced of a belief, it is very difficult to maintain objectivity. That means you and I. Thanks again, Corey.

Mike

[curious]

Hi, all,

Tumblety was a bad'un all right.

Some parts of me see him as the Ripper, waiting in ambushcade -- as he called it. He had the anatomical knowledge and seems to have been there, and as a field surgeon could have worked quickly in difficult conditions.

However, looking at what little I know about him -- and it's only a little at this point -- I find it difficult to imagine that he'd die without taking credit for being Jack the Ripper by either a death bed confession or sealed letters to be mailed upon his death. Just something to take credit for his work.

That feels like Tumblety to me.

curious and still learning

[Howard Brown]

COUPLE OF BURGLARIES
The Plateau Hotel Guests Worked For $8,000
Special to The Arkansas Gazette. Hot Springs, April 18.

Thieves went through the Plateau Hotel last night, securing about $8,000 in money and diamonds, Judge A. M. Duffie, of this city and that well-known mysterious individual, Dr. Frank Francis Tumblety, being the victims. The thieves secured a gold watch and a considerable sum of money from Judge Duffie, and $2,000 in cash and diamonds valued at between $5,000 and $7,000 from Dr. Tumblety. It was well known that Dr. Tumblety had the money and valuables and carried them on his person, besides valuable papers. No clue to the identity of the thieves.

[Mrs. E. Nigma]

Hi, all,

Tumblety was a bad'un all right.

Some parts of me see him as the Ripper, waiting in ambushcade -- as he called it. He had the anatomical knowledge and seems to have been there, and as a field surgeon could have worked quickly in difficult conditions.

However, looking at what little I know about him -- and it's only a little at this point -- I find it difficult to imagine that he'd die without taking credit for being Jack the Ripper by either a death bed confession or sealed letters to be mailed upon his death. Just something to take credit for his work.

That feels like Tumblety to me.

curious and still learning

I agree 100%.

From what I've read of Tumblety, he was more about "bragging rights" than anything. So I don't think he would have left it unknown if he was the Ripper either.

Best Wishes,
Erynn

[ChrisGeorge]

Some parts of me see him as the Ripper, waiting in ambushcade -- as he called it. He had the anatomical knowledge and seems to have been there, and as a field surgeon could have worked quickly in difficult conditions.

Hello curious

Although Tumblety claimed to have been a field surgeon on the staff of Union General George Brinton McClellan, there is no evidence that he ever served as a surgeon in the Union Army. Rather, one of his activities during the Civil War was selling phoney discharge documents to Union soldiers out of his office in Washington, D.C., as Joe Chetcuti showed in an article in Ripperologist some time back. There is no evidence that he operated on anyone so his anatomic knowledge might have been minimal. He was not a surgeon. He was a pills and potions man.

Best regards

Chris

[mklhawley]

After reading Tumblety's autobiography, which was written a few years after his Whitechapel experience of arrests, it is clear to me he is trying to refute anything that puts him in a negative light. He wants no one to know about his well documented dark side. He seems to want his legacy to be a refined and famous physician. This conflicts with the belief that Tumblety would want the public to know he was Jack the Ripper.

Interestingly, he discusses his expertise on caring for Bright's disease, the affliction of Catherine Eddowes and her kidney.

Mike