Another Twomblety Oddity

[celee]

Hi Wolf,


The words are confusing me, with the leader of an assasination plot, Did Macnaughten identify Druitt as the leader of an assasination plot or did he connect Druitt to someone who was leader, or thougt to be a leader, of a plot against Balfour?

Your friend, Brad

[perrymason]

Hi Simon.

As I have said before, we can only go by the little information we have and that is that the plot was against “Mr. Balfour at the Irish Office.”

Hi Brad.
In 1956 the book The Rise of Scotland Yard was published, written by Douglas Browne. It is evident from internal passages that Browne had access to the then closed Scotland Yard files, many of which are now gone, and so Browne’s words on the subject of the Ripper must carry some weight. Browne wrote:

“Sir Melville Macnaghten, appears to identify the Ripper with the leader of a plot to assassinate Mr. Balfour at the Irish Office.”

Who the leader was or even which plot against Balfour is unclear. Stewart Evans and others have suggested that Macnaghten may have been talking about Dr. Francis Tumblety and that any evidence for this is locked away in the Special Branch files.

Wolf.

As you say Wolf, considering the circumstances, Mr Browne's comments should be considered. I happen to feel there is evidence around like this that might explain why Dr T was so pressworthy and of such interest to the Police at the time....and personally I dont believe their Homophobia was it. And since we know he was a fake, its not like hes the surgically experienced killer they once considered.

I wonder though whether he is merely a financial aid to the cause.. rather than the source of distraction for law enforcement. Meaning... that him figuring in local Fenian matters at that time is reasonable, the police thinking that he was, is reasonable,...but to connect that dot to the Ripper crimes I dont see. Only the story of jars with uteri, unsubstantiated and likely false, lead one down that road. Maybe the culprit was within the movement but not as prominently...like the fella who gets arrested in Belfast just after the Double Event on suspicion of being the Ripper murderer. A guy who has issues with prostitutes no less.

Best regards Wolf.

[ChrisGeorge]

As you say Wolf, considering the circumstances, Mr Browne's comments should be considered. I happen to feel there is evidence around like this that might explain why Dr T was so pressworthy and of such interest to the Police at the time....and personally I dont believe their Homophobia was it. And since we know he was a fake, its not like hes the surgically experienced killer they once considered.

I wonder though whether he is merely a financial aid to the cause.. rather than the source of distraction for law enforcement. Meaning... that him figuring in local Fenian matters at that time is reasonable, the police thinking that he was, is reasonable,...but to connect that dot to the Ripper crimes I dont see. Only the story of jars with uteri, unsubstantiated and likely false, lead one down that road. Maybe the culprit was within the movement but not as prominently...like the fella who gets arrested in Belfast just after the Double Event on suspicion of being the Ripper murderer. A guy who has issues with prostitutes no less.

Best regards Wolf.

Hi Michael

Given Tumblety's connections to Canada and his having lived there, he could have been as much of interest to the British because of fear of Fenian activity in Canada as for whatever connection he might have had to what was occurring in the British Isles. After all Fenians from the United States had crossed the border and raided Canada as recently as the 1860's and 1870's. Being Canadian yourself I am sure you know this. The monument to General Sir Isaac Brock, killed at the Battle of Queenston Heights near Niagara Falls in October 1812, as blown up by the Fenians and had to be rebuilt.

All the best

Chris

Chris

[perrymason]

Hi Chris,

You make some good suggestions there...and Im impressed that you know some of our local trivia. Laura Secord, the woman who is the namesake of our famous chocolates, factored into the equation around that time in those events, she warned of the coming invasion...her house is preserved in Niagara Falls too.

Dr T was born in Rochester, just across the border, had offices in Montreal and Toronto, and was accused of poisoning a "patient" in the Martimes, troubles from which he fled. Hes also got the Lincoln assassination plot rumours, the laundered Fenian money perhaps being dispersed from San Francisco, .....he is likely more interesting on this side of the pond.. I agree.

But the police in London were savvy enough to send for signature samples from him, and Scotland Yard sent 2 men to follow someone to New York....so I think they were aware of his being there at the same time as a plot to kill Balfour was in the works. Plus we have the pending Parnell Hearings. There were obvious reasons for watching high profile self Rule Irishmen in London at that time I think.

Coinciding interestingly enough with the Ripper murders.

Best regards Chris

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Brad

This has nothing to do with Druitt. This is apparently an earlier theory of Macnaghten’s which predates his Druitt theory, so, sometime between June, 1889, when he joined the Met, and February, 1894, when he wrote his memoranda. We have no idea exactly who or what Macnaghten meant as the relevant document is no longer in the files. Browne, who in 1956 saw the then closed Scotland Yard files, can only state that Macnaghten “appears to identify the Ripper…” so, apparently, the information wasn’t that clear to begin with, and, since Macnaghten switched to a belief in Druitt’s guilt, it apparently wasn’t that convincing even to Macnaghten.

Hi Michael.

…I happen to feel there is evidence around like this that might explain why Dr T was so pressworthy and of such interest to the Police at the time....and personally I dont believe their Homophobia was it…

Actually, one of the reasons mentioned by Littlechild for thinking Tumblety was a “very likely” suspect was Tumblety’s homosexuality.

He wrote: “Although a Sycopathia Sexualis… (i.e. having an “abnormal” sexuality, or being Gay) but his feelings toward women were remarkable and bitter in the extreme, a fact on record (the term “woman hater” was a long used euphemism for homosexuals). Tumblety was arrested at the time of the murders in connection with unnatural offences…(homosexual offenses against four men). Tumblety was just the type of man the police were looking for: a foreign “doctor” with “abnormal” sexual urges.

I wonder though whether he is merely a financial aid to the cause.. rather than the source of distraction for law enforcement. Meaning... that him figuring in local Fenian matters at that time is reasonable, the police thinking that he was, is reasonable,...but to connect that dot to the Ripper crimes I dont see. Only the story of jars with uteri, unsubstantiated and likely false, lead one down that road. Maybe the culprit was within the movement but not as prominently...

There is no evidence that proves a link between Tumblety and any Irish Ultra Nationalist groups. In fact, it is safe to say that there is evidence which disproves any connection. There is no evidence that Tumblety was a "bag man" for Irish Revolutionary goups and Scotland Yard did not send two men to North America in connection with the Ripper murders.

Of the three possible assassination plots against Balfour the details of two of them, if not all three, were known to Special Branch before they could be carried out due to British double agents within the Irish Revolutionary ranks. If Tumblety was the “leader” of one of these plots his identity would have been known and he would have been arrested and charged or, at least, booted out of the country. This didn’t happen and we are left with only a tantalizing statement that Macnaghten might have had, at an early point in his career, a theory regarding some Irish Revolutionary Nationalist and the Whitechapel Murders.

Wolf.

[perrymason]

Hi Wolf,

Although perhaps not advertised as a pursuit, there were two detectives sent to New York after the last Canonical death werent there? Dr T fled through Liverpool as Frank Townsend didnt he....and around that time 2 detectives set sail across the pond. In fact there are stories from New York at the time that support the fact he was being looked for...and once again eluded them.

I dont see a potential connection for him to the murders unless stories of the American Doctor seeking specimens for his research papers, or his collection in jars are believable stories....but he had a rumored connection to money distribution for the freedom fighters that were active with assassination plots and needed financing in London at that time. Its another co-incidental instance... in a series of murders which were rife with them. Like the one that suggests perhaps that the last victim being Irish isnt just a throwaway detail.

Cheers Wolf, best regards.

[celee]

Hi Brad

This has nothing to do with Druitt. This is apparently an earlier theory of Macnaghten’s which predates his Druitt theory, so, sometime between June, 1889, when he joined the Met, and February, 1894, when he wrote his memoranda.

Hi Wolf,

How do you know that this has something to do with an earlier theory and not Druitt?

Your friend, Brad

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Michael. Sorry it took me so long to respond but I’ve been away.

Although perhaps not advertised as a pursuit, there were two detectives sent to New York after the last Canonical death werent there? Dr T fled through Liverpool as Frank Townsend didnt he....and around that time 2 detectives set sail across the pond. In fact there are stories from New York at the time that support the fact he was being looked for...and once again eluded them.

The above is not quite correct and seems to reflect the thinking of some ten years ago. We have come a long way in the last decade in understanding Tumblety and his connection, if any, with the Whitechapel murders and the events which surrounded his flight to America.

When Tumblety arrived back in New York (2 December, 1888) he took up residence at 79 East Tenth Street and was soon under the watch of a man described in the papers as an “English Detective.” Modern theorists have suggested that this “English Detective” was a Scotland Yard man who either followed Tumblety to America on board Tumblety’s ship, La Bretagne, or who took a faster ship to New York and waited for the doctor to arrive. Neither of these are likely for the simple fact that Scotland Yard didn’t have the funds to be sending men to North America.

The existing files, which show that the Whitechapel Murders Investigation had to continually ask for money or rationalize its spending, reflect this. Instead, as I have pointed out in my article On the Trail of Tumblety? Inspector Andrews’ Trip to Toronto, Part 2 (which appeared in Ripper Notes No. 24, October, 2005.) the likely answer is that the “English Detective” was actually a retired Scotland Yard Inspector named James Thomson who was already in New York when Tumblety arrived working for the London Times’ case against Parnell and the Irish Nationalists. Thomson had not only worked with Robert Anderson – the head of the Ripper Investigation – on some Fenian matters but also undertook some inquiry work for him soon after he retired in 1887. It was much cheaper to send a telegram to Thomson in New York than to actually send a man there.

The second man you are probably thinking of is Inspector Walter Andrews who arrived at Halifax on the 9th of December, 1888, with a prisoner, Roland Gideon Israel Barnett, wanted by the Toronto Police. The trip was paid for by Canadian authorities after Scotland Yard asked if they would pay if Andrews delivered him. This was highly unusual in that it wasn’t Scotland Yard’s job to deliver the prisoner to Toronto but Toronto’s job to go and pick him up in London. However, the wheels to send Andrews to Canada were set in motion at a time when Tumblety was still in London and still going through his legal proceedings so the trip had nothing to do with Tumblety.

There is also the fact that Andrews, who had every opportunity to travel to New York to search for Tumblety (he handed over his prisoner to Inspector Stark of the Toronto Police at the Halifax dock and was then free to go anywhere), didn’t get anywhere near the city but instead went to Toronto and spent time travelling around southern Ontario before heading home. Moreover, Andrews himself stated that he was in Ontario gathering information against the Irish Nationalists. Stories that Andrews went to New York to look for a Ripper suspect are false.

I dont see a potential connection for him to the murders unless stories of the American Doctor seeking specimens for his research papers, or his collection in jars are believable stories....but he had a rumored connection to money distribution for the freedom fighters that were active with assassination plots and needed financing in London at that time. Its another co-incidental instance... in a series of murders which were rife with them. Like the one that suggests perhaps that the last victim being Irish isnt just a throwaway detail.

There is actually no connection between Tumblety and the murders that we know of other than the suspicion of Littlechild (who didn’t say that Tumblety was the Ripper and, in fact, states that he wasn’t) and the actions of Scotland Yard (accepting hand writing samples from San Francisco and asking the NYPD to put a watch on him while having their own man do the same). Tumblety himself says that he was arrested merely because he was wearing a certain type of hat and so fit a description and we know that other men were arrested for exactly this reason. Other than that we have nothing.

As for rumoured connection to money distribution to Irish Nationalist causes, there isn’t any contemporary evidence for this. Joe Chetcuit and others have theorized that this might be the case, given Tumblety’s wealth and Irish American background, but I have seen no concrete evidence for this other than conjecture.

Wolf.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Brad.

It is highly unlikely that Montague John Druitt had any connection with the Clan na Gael, an Irish American radical nationalist movement headquartered in Chicago and New York, or the Irish Invincibles, whose members were either dead, in jail, gone underground or had fled to America, let alone that he had status in such terrorist organizations to lead an assassination attempt against the Irish secretary.

Wolf.

[perrymason]

Thanks for that thorough and illuminating reply Wolf. I should
be more informed when matters concern Canadian connections.... but I somehow missed the Andrews story.

Best regards Wolf.

[Simon Wood]

When Tumblety arrived back in New York (2 December, 1888) he took up residence at 79 East Tenth Street and was soon under the watch of a man described in the papers as an “English Detective.” Modern theorists have suggested that this “English Detective” was a Scotland Yard man who either followed Tumblety to America on board Tumblety’s ship, La Bretagne, or who took a faster ship to New York and waited for the doctor to arrive. Neither of these are likely for the simple fact that Scotland Yard didn’t have the funds to be sending men to North America.

Hi Wolf,

Here's an extract from the 1889 book "The Clan-Na-Gael and the Murder of Dr. Cronin" by John T. McEnnis, who appears to think that Scotland Yard had money to burn—

"Plain-clothes men were first put on the force in 1842. They were formerly attached to each station. Now they are under the central control. There are four hundred in summer time and seven hundred in winter, the ranks being filled from the uniformed force. Still, these do not make the body which is usually referred to as Scotland Yard. These are a chosen corps of about eighty men, of whom each has the rank of Inspector — about equivalent to a Lieutenant of Chicago police. They form a division by themselves called the " C.O." and are under the immediate command of the Assistant Commissioner of Police of the Home Office. Their general duty is confined to the metropolitan area, but they are constantly at work on investigations for the Government and for foreign governments. About twenty of the men are employed on political matters solely, and of these ten have made a specialty of Irish affairs both in Ireland and America. The political detectives have the best of it. They are intrusted with the spending of the secret service moneys, and much of it of course is expended without vouchers or accounts. Sometimes they receive handsome presents from foreign governments. One London detective was given £2,000 in 1886 for information furnished the Russian Minister which is said to have saved the Czar's life. The secret service fund is a large one. Indeed it is as large as the Home Office may at any time demand. In the years 1881-'82-'83-'84-'85, when dynamite activity was at its worst, bills for " information " reaching £5,000 were on several occasions paid, according to the statements of the officers themselves. Smaller sums, from £100 to £600, are paid out freely to smaller informers."

Regards,

Simon

[perrymason]

Simon that was a fabulous excerpt...thanks for that. I think what you get with suggestions like this piece is a curiosity about whether things are actually as they seem or as they are presented to us. If things are done out of the public eye so that the operations could be more effective, how can we know what exactly transpired? And would releasing information after the fact compromise a larger issue than the one or ones in question?

The idea that there were Authorities working without scrutiny and budget constraints actually makes sense to me...its like a Secret Service, or a version of a Homeland Security entity...access to money and whatever is needed to provide safety to a "system". I dont think Homeland Security is designed to protect assets...as much as it is a way of life. Fenian Anarchists might have seemed like a Bin Laden bunch to Victoria Regina and the Parliament.

Best regards Simon

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Chetcuti, Chetcuti, Chetcuti, Chetcuti.

Hi Simon and Michael.

The political detectives have the best of it. They are entrusted with the spending of the secret service moneys, and much of it of course is expended without vouchers or accounts.

The money referred to above was part of the Special Branch, or Special Section D funds and was not part of the regular Scotland Yard budget. The Section D funds came from the Treasury through the Home Office. As I have written, the Whitechapel Murders Investigation was short on funds didn’t have the wherewithal to be sending men to North America to hunt the Ripper.

Wolf.

[celee]

Hi Brad.

It is highly unlikely that Montague John Druitt had any connection with the Clan na Gael, an Irish American radical nationalist movement headquartered in Chicago and New York, or the Irish Invincibles, whose members were either dead, in jail, gone underground or had fled to America, let alone that he had status in such terrorist organizations to lead an assassination attempt against the Irish secretary.

Wolf.

Hi Wolf,

Did Macnaughten connect Druitt as the leader of a plot against Balfour, your answer would be no. However, did Macnaughten connect Druitt to someone who was a leader or thought to be a leader of such a plot. The connection to this person may not have anything to do with a plot against Balfour. Druitt may have known this man socially or in a profesional way.

Your friend, Brad

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Hi Brad.

I’m not sure why you find it hard to believe that Macnaghten held different views about the identity of the Ripper at different times in his police career, especially since evidence (which supposedly pointed to Druitt) was “not in possession of the police till some years after I became a detective officer.” We know nothing about Macnaghten’s earlier suspect other than what Browne wrote: “Sir Melville Macnaghten, appears to identify the Ripper with the leader of a plot to assassinate Mr. Balfour at the Irish Office.” How you can connect this brief sentence with Druitt is beyond my meager abilities.

Wolf.