Another Twomblety Oddity

[Blues]

Does anyone else find it extremely odd yet coincidental that FT altered the spelling of his last name to include the item he collected and quite possibly took from his victims?

Not having been on the boards for too long, I'm not sure if this has been discussed...but I thought of it immediately when reading "First American Serial Killer" recently...

The brass rings in his possession are also very interesting...For him to have kept such cheap jewelry until his dying day - on his person no less - is highly suspect. It's just too damn bad that there's no one who can identify said rings or that any follow up on this obvious coincidence was done at the time.

Blues

[c.d.]

Hi Blues,

When did this spelling change take place?

Now if he had altered his name so that it now had 39 letters in it, I'd say we have our man.

c.d.

[Wolf Vanderlinden]

Variations on the spelling of Tumblety’s last name come not from Tumblety himself but from newspaper accounts which simply misspelled his name. Tumblety, Twomblety Tumity, Twombley are just some of the variations. An interesting question is why did the family spell it Tumuelty on his grave stone.

The two “cheap” brass rings found among his possessions are a bit of a non-starter. They were appraised at being worth $3 so they were hardly “cheap” for their time and were probably more expensive than Annie Chapman could afford (or afford to keep without hocking). That they had some sentimental value to Tumblety is probably true but they could easily have belonged to someone like his father or mother and he kept them after their deaths as a reminder.

Wolf.

[Blues]

I don't have the book in front of me...

...but I'm fairly certain that "Twomblety" was written in correspondence from the "doc" himself...I may be wrong...but I will check in a moment to be certain.

The rings, amongst other much more expensive jewelry, is completely uncommon and out of place for him...he also didn't have close relationships with his family...being the youngest of 11 kids is not a situation that breeds closeness...my mother was the youngest of 6 and by the time she was around 12 or so, her bros. and sisters were out of the house with families of their own...no close relationships to be had. They were more like aunts and uncles to her...needless to say, my grandmother was 40 at the time of my mother's birth...they were essentially grandparents to her in terms of "relating" to her. I can only imagine the distance between FT and his mother - which I believe is the basis for most of the murderers in this genre. Nothing NEEDS to be added in for him to be neglected, but if you add in some abuse, Catholic shame and alcoholism (I hear that some Irish drank back then) and you get our dear Francis.

I also find it highly compelling that just after/around EACH of FT's known prosecutable acts of "indecency" with the 4 men named in the case, we have a murder of one of Jack's victims. Was FT shamed and embarrassed by his homosexual daliences? Did he blame women for driving him to the arms of men to find comfort and companionship? I think that it is highly possible that after he engaged in acts with men, he sought revenge upon women. He hated them for what they made him do.

The on-record gaiter wearing "doctor" resembles Hutchinson's man as well. After reading the book, Scotland Yard had tremendous reason to believe he was their man...I don't think that the "voluminous" records they kept on him disappearing was an accident at all. Letting him leave was a class A screw up and they knew it. Setting his bail at 300 pounds would have kept almost everyone in jail back then - but not the rich doc. 300 pounds is an obnoxious bail for what he was being accused of - misdemeanors at that. They wanted to keep him in country and couldn't with the bail...and then LOST track of him ALTOGETHER! Very embarrassing.

Joe Barnett has many strikes against him - mostly contrived from our minds of "what could he have done?" in that position. There is a tremendous amount of evidence against Tumblety that is verifyable. We have much less guess work with FT than other suspects. Their asking for handwriting samples from S.F. police - I think - didn't necessarily have to do with the "Jack the Ripper" letters. Sending that many Yard men to the States indicates that they knew far more than we know they knew. That knowledge is, at the present time, lost. His file from the Yard could be the Holy Grail of all Ripperdom. Much was left out as to what was found in No. 13. With all the press leaks, the police clammed up quickly. They found and were also looking for specific things that we are still not privy to.

Tumblety had a persecution complex yet went out of his way to make himself conspicuous and persecutable. His life is one of lies and deceit from day one. He believed that he was larger than life and beyond the grasp of the lesser beings that tried to sully his reputation and character. And for the most part, he was right - he succeeded.

Anyway, I said I wouldn't ramble anymore

Thanks,

Blues

[c.d.]

Hi Blues,

Just for starters -- although we can't be sure that any of the witnesses actually saw Jack, if they did, the person they described was not Tumblety. At least 6 feet tall, 55 years of age at the time and sporting an extremely large mustache. None of the descriptions comes remotely close.

c.d.

[Blues]

Actually...

He was 5 feet 10 inches...very handsome and looked much younger than his age. Remember, this wasn't an East End hard living man...this was a pampered lout. I also agree with the thought that a lurking murderer is apt to bend down a bit and stoop to speak to someone that is only 5 feet 2 inches tall...5' 10 isn't a far cry from 5' 8 wouldn't you agree? His dark moustache wasn't as obnoxiously large as the drawing most of us are familiar with...a look at other contemporary drawings of him show a much smaller less exaggerated 'stache. I know that one drawing shows an almost unREAL moustache.

The one consistent thing about the Ripper "sightings" is that they are inconsistent. Hutch's being damn spot on for the flamboyent FT. He was also very capable of dressing down and did on many occasions. After his arrest for military garb, he was said to have changed drastically the style of dress. This was a man who wore earrings in the 1870's!!! He definitely knew how to stand out when he wanted to...He also knew how to blend in and elude Scotland Yard by changing his name and dressing "appropriately" to fit his surroundings when needed. If he was truly the "Ripper", he was a traveling, serial, mass murderer and was one hell of a smart, screwed up man. If all the homoerotic, malpracticing, flamboyent, murdering, conniving, fraudulent tales can be stretched out to occuring on a daily basis, this was one hell of a story. One that hasn't been properly told yet. If he truly committed the same kind of deeds in other ports (which is suspected), all the other "interesting" serial killers pale in comparison to Tumblety. Getting involved with the Fenians...assassinations - here with the incorrect (?) accusation of Lincoln's assassination and with Balfour...the manslaughter of one of his patients...the Irish official murders that he fit the description in...the Yellow Fever conspiracy...the Victorian homosexual relations with known literary persons...the international travel...the Whitechapel murders...Tumblety was around and had a hand in or possibly had a hand in ALL of the above. He makes Hannibal Lector look like a poseur. A movie based on just the FACTS of Tumblety's life would appear as fiction!

Thanks for the convo so far guys!

Blues

[truebluedub]

.the Irish official murders that he fit the description in

Blues

Which murders would these be?

Chris Lowe

[c.d.]

Hi Blues,

An article surfaced recently in which a reporter interviewed Tumblety not long after the murders took place. The reporter went on at great length to describe Tumblety's mustache to his readers and marvelled at its great size. Clearly Tumblety must have had the mustache at the time of the murders yet it was never commented upon by any of the witnesses.

Could he at 55 pass for 30? I think that's pushing it. I have also read that he was over 6 feet but be that as it may, I think trying to pass for 5'7" inches by bending over is stretching it as well.

Tumblety also fails miserably when matched up against FBI profiling.

And if he went on to kill Mary Kelly in a foreign country just two days after being arrested, he had some major league conojes. He was reputed to be a physical coward who would flee at the first sign of trouble.

c.d.

[Ally]

There is also a photograph of Tumblety that was found recently by Tim Riordan that shows him with a monstrously enormous mustache. It is as unreal in its actual size as some of the more outlandish drawings, which were not exaggerated at all.

[Ben]

Hutch's being damn spot on for the flamboyent FT.

Not at all, Blues.

Hutchinson's suspect was 5'6 and approximately 34 years of age with a slight moustache, whereas Tumblety was 5'11ish, 56 years old and with a monster moustache. Totally irreconcilable, I'm afraid, and that's even setting aside the question marks over Hutchinson's discredited suspect description which, as one journalist observed with uncharacteristic understatement, "engenders a feeling of scepticism".

Yep...just a tinsy bit.

None of the other witness descriptions look like anyone vaguely resembling Tumblety either.

After reading the book, Scotland Yard had tremendous reason to believe he was their man

Probably not, Blues. His absence of certainly conspicuous from the Macnaghten Memmoranda, especially when we consider that the likes of Michael Ostrog seemed to merit inclusion.

Best regards,
Ben

[c.d.]

Hi Ben,

Aren't you up kind of late? What time is it over there?

c.d.

[Ben]

Hi CD,

01:25 over here. I've just been playing late night poker, and now I'm watching it!

[timothy]

The Jewelry

Tumblety's jewelry was seriously undervalued by the public adminsitrator of St. Louis. There were some strange problems with the assessment, including enlisting the janitor of the hospital as one of the assessors. It was supposed to auctioned off and added to the estate but it never was. It is likely the public administrator pocketed it.

There are over 10 descriptions of Tumblety's height that mention a specific figure, one said he was less than 6 feet and all the others state he was 6 feet or taller. He describes himself as over 6 feet.

Tim

[Blues]

Although...

...many of my points have fallen flat...I think playing devil's advocate is the only way we can possibly not get too lazy and cause Ripper related thought to stall out. Hence my provocation of thought (I hope).

Although I am not convinced Tumblety was the Whitechapel Murderer, the fact remains that he was the only one that sustained any interest in the police/Scotland Yard for any amount of time. They spent money on chasing him while Barnett was in their backyard and they only spent a cursory amount of time with him. What could there possibly have been that piqued their interest so much in Tumblety? They knew he didn't fit any of their best witness descriptions - yet they sought him. They brought him up on what were possibly hard to prosecute charges to keep him around. Why? We have at least 6 Scotland Yard men sent to the US to shadow a suspect that many believe was in custody during MJK's murder (In many circumstances suspects are CLEARED when a similar murder happens while they are in custody...which leads me to believe - he wasn't.) Kidney isn't followed up on, but Tumblety is. Barnett isn't followed up on, Fleming isn't followed up on, etc. etc. but FT is. Coincidentally, his dossier vanishes...(I know, a lot is missing but the whole thing? Including any references until 1913?) It was said that every time he came to London he came under police notice. I would LOVE to see what he was up to each time he arrived. Could explain a lot, not much, or everything.

I believe that at the time of FT's arrest and MJK's murder, the police finally decided to quit allowing the press to lead the investigation and got very tight lipped about the whole thing - especially Miller's Court. Was there an axe etc.? Don't know...Littlechild was directly below the better minds working the case and was privy to things that the press and we were not.

Overall - if you have a person who doesn't fit the suspect description, why bother with him in London let alone across the Atlantic?

Thanks for the thoughts everyone...

Blues

[c.d.]

Hi Blues,

Although I don't have all the details, it has been put forth by knowledgeable people on these boards that Scotland Yard detectives were in America checking on possible Fenian links to their own country and that they invented the shadowing Tumblety story as a cover up to what they were really doing.

c.d.